Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In with Google

Become a Subscriber!

Subscribe to our Patreon, and get image uploads with no ads on the site!

Read more...

Have modellers got too complicated?

What's Hot
24

Comments

  • SporkySporky Frets: 27586
    I remember before people started listening to music on computers when even the average Joe took an interest in hi fi reviews etc.

    Really? I remember people listening on crappy transistor radios with no bass, on cheap walkman copies with worse headphones...
    "[Sporky] brings a certain vibe and dignity to the forum."
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • WazmeisterWazmeister Frets: 9446
    Yes. They are all over complicated and you have to learn a completely new language.


    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • RolandRoland Frets: 8590
    Yes. They are all over complicated and you have to learn a completely new language.
    “Over complicated” is a value judgement. It all depends on your personal values. They are complicated. So’s a computer. In both cases you can choose the level of complexity you want to work at.
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 2reaction image Wisdom
  • TTBZTTBZ Frets: 2873
    edited October 2018
    Yamaha THR100 does what you want.

    For me the HX Stomp is what I've been waiting for. 6 blocks is enough for me to get crunch/dirty/lead without too much to over complicate things. I'm a perpetual tweaker so it's good to put a limit on it.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • skunkwerxskunkwerx Frets: 6838
    Katana is as deep as I'd go tbh. 

    Its easy as pie to use, though even I got stumped for a got minute having to install a driver seperately... i'm no good at these things but it did automatically do it after I bothered reading the instructions... 

    Once in I assigned a couple favourite effects, not that I use them, infact I've forgotten what I even installed.. 

    Set up (katana 50) to have its 4 channels, 2 banks of 2, unplugged from laptop and forgot. 

    Set the 2 channels I've made with high gain to have the noise gate on, and the two clean channels to have it off, so I can run my effects through the clean channels and hear what kind of hiss and hum they may be adding. 

    I like having options, ie noise gate, presence, assignable effects and a deeper eq of it all, but in reality when I plug into the laptop and mess with them, I often ruin the sound because I have no idea what it all means and does.

    I'd say I got some very basic functions done simply by plugging in to the laptop, that otherwise would have annoyed me (inbuilt noise gate, ease of setting a tone up to one channel and saving then switching between my other channels to make sure volume is matched across all). 

    But once done, its now just a turn on and go amp thats set up how I like it. 
    Anything involving plugging a smartphone in or controlling it via one turns me off. 

    Most of the deeper features of the Katana like editing fx parameters are wasted on me, but I view that as optional rather than needing to know it. After all any major effect I use, I have a pedal for. 

    Too simple is also a turn off though. 


    The only easy day, was yesterday...
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • WazmeisterWazmeister Frets: 9446
    Roland said:
    Yes. They are all over complicated and you have to learn a completely new language.
    “Over complicated” is a value judgement. It all depends on your personal values. They are complicated. So’s a computer. In both cases you can choose the level of complexity you want to work at.
    True enough, but its’s all a value judgement.

    It is ‘more’ complicated to profile/dial in a Carr Rambler sound, say, into a Kemper or Helix than it is plug-and-play into the real thng...

    And bear in mind, Im a 99% Kemper user.


    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Frets: 13929
    I found the Axe FX to be mind bogglingly complex, way too many amp models and pages and pages of parameters some of which seem to do very little to change the sound as you adjust them. It was way too complicated for me. Helix is simpler and better for it.


    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • TeetonetalTeetonetal Frets: 7801
    Roland said:
    Yes. They are all over complicated and you have to learn a completely new language.
    “Over complicated” is a value judgement. It all depends on your personal values. They are complicated. So’s a computer. In both cases you can choose the level of complexity you want to work at.
    True enough, but its’s all a value judgement.

    It is ‘more’ complicated to profile/dial in a Carr Rambler sound, say, into a Kemper or Helix than it is plug-and-play into the real thng...

    And bear in mind, Im a 99% Kemper user.


    And yet....

    Setting up a modeller is reslly no different to the endless amp / pedal journey that many of us go on. 

    How many amp / pedal combinations have you been through? Each iteration might be plug and play and easy to dial in, but ultimately a lot of hassle when the day comes when you want a change.

    For me modellers now sound as good as the real thing. It's not close, it's the same. Each one can be set and forget, but when you need that change, more than likely after 10 mins, you can find what you need.

    My basic 4 helix patches remain unchanged for 2 years now. 1 bass,  2 guitar, 1 live acoustic patch. Ultimately the simplest solution to creating music that I've had.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 4reaction image Wisdom
  • SporkySporky Frets: 27586
    edited October 2018
    It is ‘more’ complicated to profile/dial in a Carr Rambler sound, say, into a Kemper or Helix than it is plug-and-play into the real thng...

    I'm not sure that's actually true. To plug into the real thing I'd have to find a shop that sells them, find the funds to pay for one, make space for one and then get started on making it sound how I want. 

    Much simpler with the Helix; I just add an amp block with that model and fiddle with the controls until I like the results.
    "[Sporky] brings a certain vibe and dignity to the forum."
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • impmannimpmann Frets: 12646
    Menus.

    Scrolling.


    Yep, that’s when it’s too complicated imho.

    if someone wants to ‘deep edit’ something then the back end of the controls should be accessible (poss via an app or similar), but for me if the User Interface involves scrolling, multi-layer menus, multi use controls it’s a ‘no’.

    And yes it’s a value judgement. And my opinion. 
    Never Ever Bloody Anything Ever.

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 2reaction image Wisdom
  • NelsonPNelsonP Frets: 3347
    edited October 2018
    I have an atomic amplfire 12.

    After much fiddling ive got down to 5 basic presets going from clean to high gain. I use three different amp models for that. Fender deluxe, cornford and friedman hbe. These are selectable in one bank on the bottom row of buttons.

    My top row of buttons is comp, boost, modulation (chorus on cleans, phaser on gain), delay and tap tempo / tuner.

    This works for 95% of what I play.

    Whenever i try to set up a new amp model it is not easy to get it sounding better than what I've already got. And the number of parameters in some of the effects is ridiculous. This gives it a lot of versatility but you have to really want to explore and learn your way around it.

    You don't have to use the computer based editor to adjust the parameters but if you don't most of the editing is done via one scroll and push button. Which is limiting. I actually find that to be a good thing as it limits tweaking. I just don't bother. However,  I'm left with the feeling that I'm not really using its full capabilities.

    I appreciate that everyone will use these things in a slightly different way but I think that a lot of folks will end up with a few preferred presets that they use most of the time.

    And I miss the simplicity of my 2 channel valve amp.

    Hence the question.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • This is a UX argument not a technology one. A company will come up with a dual interface mode (expert plus simple) to solve it. Very common practice in the software industry.
    ဈǝᴉʇsɐoʇǝsǝǝɥɔဪቌ
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    skunkwerx said:
    Katana is as deep as I'd go tbh. 

    Its easy as pie to use, though even I got stumped for a got minute having to install a driver seperately... i'm no good at these things but it did automatically do it after I bothered reading the instructions... 

    It also sounds great.
    A lot of my home playing is through the Katana.
    A clean jazz type tone and a rock type tone and that is all I need to keep the fingers limber.

    Also makes a good backup rig- although I think the HX stomp will end up doing that for me.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • menamestommenamestom Frets: 4641

    I think they have got way easier which is the only reason I have one.   The Helix is as easy and intuitive to use as anything.  If there is complexity it is in the many possibilities,  not the way you arrive at those possibilities.
    Option paralysis is different to menu driven frustrations and poor implementation.

    Personally, I’m still using amps and back looking at various pedals, but not because of any issues withthe Helix.  I just prefer amps and pedals, but the Helix is that useful there’s no way I’d part with it.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • I agree with @menamestom and was about to type the same thing when he said it for me. 

    If anything, they've got simpler. Everyone loves Helix because of the UI. Yes it does a lot but the simple use cases - setup some effects into an amp model - are trivially easy. 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 7350
    This is a UX argument not a technology one. A company will come up with a dual interface mode (expert plus simple) to solve it. Very common practice in the software industry.
    100% this. 

    In the olden days, anything digital or with lots of parameters had stacks and stacks of godawful menus - guaranteed to kill any creative flair you may have been feeling.

    The controls on the modern units (in particular Helix) make things so simple it's a different world now. Seeing just how clear and simple it was to use Helix is what made modelling a viable route for me. 
    Red ones are better. 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • BeexterBeexter Frets: 597
    The latest top end modellers can do so much but you don't need to if you don't want to.
    There are hundreds of TV channels on my Freeview TV but I only watch 3 or 4 of them. It's nice to have the option to watch something else should I ever want to.
    Also I've never had a " wish I could get that sound" moment with my AX8 whereas with my valve amp and small pedalboard,  I have to make compromises. Having said that, my recent HX Effects purchase will cure that. Will I ever use every single effect on it? No, but I'm glad they're all there.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • LebarqueLebarque Frets: 3755
    Yes. Well, too complicated for me anyway!
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • VoxmanVoxman Frets: 4718
    edited October 2018
    Aside from sounding really good, it's why I think the original blue series Valvetronix amps were so well designed, because they are sooo simple to use with real knobs and no scrolling menus. Simple buttons to select modulation, delay and reverb options, simple dial for amp models and pedals,  normal rotary controls for EQ, gain, master volume etc, hi and lo input options, and doddle to engage tuner in any mode, save a patch in any of 32 fully programmable locations, or switch to manual wysiwyg mode.  16 amp models, 11 pedal options, 5 modulation, 3 reverb, 3 delays, and rear attenuator dial.  Line outs, fx loop, extn cab outs that don't cut out internal speakers, headphone out.

    It may not have all the mod cons by today's standards but in all honesty it has everything you need. And, although this may seem strange, it makes you a better player because you spend more time playing than tweaking, and its limitations mean you have to be more creative and you become better learning to make better use of what you have. 

    And the reason I've stuck with my Vox Tonelab SE and LE is that they are easy to use and tweak live, again largely just with buttons, dials and knobs and no annoying scrolling to find an amp, pedal, or effect.
    I started out with nothing..... but I've still got most of it left (Seasick Steve)
    1reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 24601
    I still use my old POD 2 which is a doddle to use. I still think, as does Lee Anderton, that there's money in a POD style unit with a few amps and effects that's easy to use. My practice amp is a Yamaha THR10C which proves my point that a few well modelled amps and FX sell and sound good.

    I do have a Line 6 HD POD Pro which I'm thinking of upgrading to a Helix rack.

    Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
Sign In or Register to comment.