Hifi question - subwoofer

viz

Who uses a subwoofer to boost their hifi / TV system, which one (or ones), and what advantages do you hear?

Gagaryn

I use one with TV all the time and have at times used (the same) one with hifi.

With the TV, it is part of a 5/1 system so is essential - the AV AMP sends all the low frequency to the sub, don't remember the frequency crossover but you don't really need to think about it - just let the amp do it's analysis with a mic and then tweak if/as required.

I have tried using the sub with hifi but have had mixed results.. The issue is you need to rely on the sub's built in crossover and set manually but you probably won't have a way to not send the bass frequencies to your main stereo speakers which can result in weird phasing issues which can be tricky to resolve and can sound ok with one piece of music then bad with the next.

I replaced my hifi amp and my desire to use a sub disappeared - the new amp is way fuller sounding. When I did use the sub with the hifi, I was constantly fiddling with the remote, changing phase and adjusting volume. 

So in summary - great for tv and film as part of a dedicated A/V setup. Less great and more hassle to get good results as part of a stereo HiFi setup.

viz

Excellent info thanks. Unfortunately I’ve already bought one so I should have asked this question on saturday! It arrives tomorrow. 

I have no idea how to set it up - I’m hoping it will have instructions. You can set the crossover frequency - they suggest 80hz, whereas my speakers go down to 28, so quite a bit of overlap. The sub then takes it down to 20. I’m thinking of having it set quite quiet, just to add a bit of warmth. Didn’t think of phasing as being an issue - we shall see. 

Rocker

Depends on what you want to use the sub for.

AV: set it as loud as you feel is appropriate for your viewing.

MUSIC: play a CD and gradually turn the sub down until you 'can't hear' it. That is the sweet spot as the additional bass appears to originate from your speakers. Oddly enough, the main benefits are soundstage and cymbal clarity. I have no idea why cymbals sound better when the sub is in use but they do on a well setup system.

viz

Rocker said:

Depends on what you want to use the sub for.

AV: set it as loud as you feel is appropriate for your viewing.

MUSIC: play a CD and gradually turn the sub down until you 'can't hear' it. That is the sweet spot as the additional bass appears to originate from your speakers. Oddly enough, the main benefits are soundstage and cymbal clarity. I have no idea why cymbals sound better when the sub is in use but they do on a well setup system.

I’ve been using my PA sub this last week and done exactly that with my records (apart from when I listen to EDM or 17th century organ music, when I turn it up so that it’s a noticeable extra). And I agree, you can’t put your finger on what it adds, but it just seems to make everything more separated yet whole. Somehow.

The new sub will be more subtle and integrated I think (it’s the same make as the speakers), but I’m hoping will also add the slam when required for Basement Jaxx, Bach, that sort of thing. 

prowla

If it's got a subwoofer it ain't a hi-fi.

viz

prowla said:

If it's got a subwoofer it ain't a hi-fi.

Purist!

Thing is, my speakers sound a teeny bit lighter than what I’m used to, even without spikes - and what with quite a large room and oak flooring, I think it will just benefit from a tiny bit of warming at the deep end. And the speakers struggle to cope with reproducing 64’ organ pipes. Having said that, I’m not sure how a sub will manage to cope with that any better!

Sporky

You'd need a fan sub to get down to the 8Hz fundamental of a 64-foot organ pipe. 

Phil_aka_Pip

viz said:

prowla said:

If it's got a subwoofer it ain't a hi-fi.

Purist!

Thing is, my speakers sound a teeny bit lighter than what I’m used to, even without spikes - and what with quite a large room and oak flooring, I think it will just benefit from a tiny bit of warming at the deep end. And the speakers struggle to cope with reproducing 64’ organ pipes. Having said that, I’m not sure how a sub will manage to cope with that any better!

Hmmm ... why not just get better amplifier & speakers than spending more money on a sub?

viz

Phil_aka_Pip said:

viz said:

prowla said:

If it's got a subwoofer it ain't a hi-fi.

Purist!

Thing is, my speakers sound a teeny bit lighter than what I’m used to, even without spikes - and what with quite a large room and oak flooring, I think it will just benefit from a tiny bit of warming at the deep end. And the speakers struggle to cope with reproducing 64’ organ pipes. Having said that, I’m not sure how a sub will manage to cope with that any better!

Hmmm ... why not just get better amplifier & speakers than spending more money on a sub?

Amp is next on the list

viz

Sporky said:

You'd need a fan sub to get down to the 8Hz fundamental of a 64-foot organ pipe. 

I know, this one goes to 22hz, which will sound pretty good I reckon. My father’s organ is only 16’ long and it sounds AMAZING. 

Sporky

This is the feller you'll need. 

http://www.eminent-tech.com/LFT12.html

viz

Sporky said:

This is the feller you'll need. 

http://www.eminent-tech.com/LFT12.html

Too late. Nice though and it goes lower than the one I’ve bought. 

Sporky

You can never have too many hats, gloves, or subwoofers. 

Grumpyrocker

I've got a pretty decent AV amp with surround speakers and a sub.

Sounds pretty good with music coming through it, but when listening to music I always use the mode that just uses the front (Q Acoustics 2020i) speakers and no sub. I don't really like the sub for music.

Phil_aka_Pip

viz said:

Phil_aka_Pip said:

viz said:

prowla said:

If it's got a subwoofer it ain't a hi-fi.

Purist!

Thing is, my speakers sound a teeny bit lighter than what I’m used to, even without spikes - and what with quite a large room and oak flooring, I think it will just benefit from a tiny bit of warming at the deep end. And the speakers struggle to cope with reproducing 64’ organ pipes. Having said that, I’m not sure how a sub will manage to cope with that any better!

Hmmm ... why not just get better amplifier & speakers than spending more money on a sub?

Amp is next on the list

The Radford Series 5 STA-25 is the best amplifier I have ever heard. Do try one

viz

Nice, and I’ve been tossing up valve vs transistor; but I really need 500w or more so will probably go for transistor power amp, I think. 

snakemanStoo

viz said:

 My father’s organ is only 16’ long and it sounds AMAZING. 

https://i1.sndcdn.com/artworks-000216765438-l48tz5-t500x500.jpg

Phil_aka_Pip

viz said:

Nice, and I’ve been tossing up valve vs transistor; but I really need 500w or more so will probably go for transistor power amp, I think. 

Not a large number of those on the market AFAIK. Why not just use more efficient speakers then you don't need to shove such large amounts of current?

You might like Martin Logan Electrostatics. I was very impressed when I heard them. they were being driven by a power stage that had 4 big (spelt HUGE) valves in each monoblock, they were the size of beer bottles and had a deadly looking anode cap. EDIT they might have been PL504s

prowla

If you've got full-range speakers you don't need a sub (and it'll kill the pace of the music).

Great for movies and explosions, though.

viz

prowla said:

If you've got full-range speakers you don't need a sub (and it'll kill the pace of the music).

Great for movies and explosions, though.

Thing is, I have been using my PA sub for a week, really quietly, and I love it. And by all accounts the new sub is fast and musical so should be lovely. Anyway I’ll know tomorrow