My "new found" experience with Marshalls

Ché

Hey guys, I'd like to share my recent experience and possibly get your advice on a few things.

After having a studio set up for a while I finally decided to crank my 4104 JCM800 combo and...

Now I want a plexi! :-D

I've found my favourite clean tone on the 800 by running both pre-amp and master on full and having the guitar volume on about 3 which is quite a revalation. With my Strymon Flint it's lush. Only issue is the amout of noise it creates and I struggle to integrate overdrive pedals effectively. Do you guys have any tips? (other than getting a second amp). I found this combination to be the best sounding clean tone as the touch responsivity and "bounciness" of the clean is exactly what I'm after. Makes me wonder if I could ever get that tone with the guitar volume on full to make best use of pedals. (I'm theorising, no)

I'd also like to query plexi's, should I opt for a 50w 1987x or SLP (or even JTM45)? I'm looking at getting a head and 4x12 as I've recently started a metal project akin to Tool/Mastodon/Kyuss with my SG in B standard. The single 1x12 open back 4104 isn't cutting it there. My other gigs range from funk to jazz and I mainly use smaller amps in those settings. I'm not against looking at Orange/Mesa amps as I require a tight low end and I also wouldn't mind blending amps for the ideal tone.

Thanks in advice, always nice to hear opinions from you lot

Cheers,
Shaun

TTBZ

If you want to use it clean as a pedal platform I'd probably go for a JTM45 over something like a 1987x or SLP which seem to be pretty gainy from the get-go. The SLP is also loud as fuck and I couldn't imagine ever being able to get it up to where it sounds best in a normal band situation! Sounds incredible though. Origins are kind of a similar vibe but made in Vietnam so much cheaper. Built in power scaling and gain boost, might be worth checking out at least.

If you want to get the gain from your amp I'd recommend a JVM or Jubilee. I play similar stuff to you with a Mini Jubilee but I'd love a JVM just for the orange gain channel which sounds massive into a 412. Mind you I wouldn't say no to a 1987x or 2203 either but I don't really need clean tones  or a used Astoria Dual or Custom might be worth checking out.

ICBM

Ché said:

I've found my favourite clean tone on the 800 by running both pre-amp and master on full and having the guitar volume on about 3 which is quite a revalation. With my Strymon Flint it's lush. Only issue is the amout of noise it creates and I struggle to integrate overdrive pedals effectively. Do you guys have any tips? (other than getting a second amp). I found this combination to be the best sounding clean tone as the touch responsivity and "bounciness" of the clean is exactly what I'm after. Makes me wonder if I could ever get that tone with the guitar volume on full to make best use of pedals. (I'm theorising, no)

Are you using the High input? If so try the Low, there’s one less gain stage so it will add a lot less noise.

Ché said:

I'd also like to query plexi's, should I opt for a 50w 1987x or SLP (or even JTM45)? I'm looking at getting a head and 4x12 as I've recently started a metal project akin to Tool/Mastodon/Kyuss with my SG in B standard. The single 1x12 open back 4104 isn't cutting it there.

Personally I would get a 2203 - I don’t think the JTM45 is tight enough for the harder rock sounds, and if you’re down-tuning there’s just something about 100 watt amps - not just volume. The 2203 is the best amp Marshall ever made in my opinion, actually better than a Plexi.

Keep the 4104 as a backup, you can always run it through the 4x12” if you have to as well as usingbit for the smaller gigs.

TimmyO

Me too - I LOVE the JCM800 for clean - I used to go into the Low input all the time - love it 

Ché

Thanks guys

I’m using the low input channel so it could be the amp needs looking at. I’ve found a happy medium with the pre-amp rolled back to 3 or 4 which allows me to use pedals. 

What is about the 2203 that puts it ahead of the plexi? The 4104 has the 2204 circuit, correct? If so it’d feel somewhat overkill to have the same flavour. I had thought of converting the combo to a head at one point. I agree with you about the 100w with lower tunings although I worry if excessive volume would be an issue. (thinking more for sound guys than studio).

I’ve seen a Friedman Smallbox head locally (keep forgetting about them) that could be interesting if I could get the cash together. 

tabano

I had the chance to a/b both the JCM 800 reissue and the Slp 100w plexi reissue at pretty much all volumes, I was going for the 800 but I ended up with the plexi,
for cleans I do what you do, lower the guitar volume and to me they are terrific,
and for pedals if you find input 1 when over 6 too meaty input 1 low is killer, at least to me..
I think its just more versatile than the 800 and sounds bigger,more 3D and more dynamic..
this is all in my opinion of course..

ICBM

Ché said:

I’m using the low input channel so it could be the amp needs looking at. I’ve found a happy medium with the pre-amp rolled back to 3 or 4 which allows me to use pedals.

Even using the Low it will still be a bit noisy with the Pre and the Master full up, it's just the nature of it.

Ché said:

What is about the 2203 that puts it ahead of the plexi?

To me, it sounds slightly better - I love the extra 'ring' it has - and it's far more flexible, a Plexi doesn't have enough gain until it's really cranked and then it's too loud. At least without an attenuator - and even then I think the ability to control gain, amp volume and final volume all independently in any combination makes the 2203 better.

The 2203 is just the sound of rock, to me - the absolute definition of the sound of an overdriven guitar amp.

Ché said:

The 4104 has the 2204 circuit, correct? If so it’d feel somewhat overkill to have the same flavour. I had thought of converting the combo to a head at one point. I agree with you about the 100w with lower tunings although I worry if excessive volume would be an issue. (thinking more for sound guys than studio).

Yes, but the 2203 sounds 'bigger' even through the same cab. It's not about the volume - the extra 3dB isn't going to make a huge difference - it's the extra chunk in the bottom end.

A 4104 in an open-back cab with a single speaker is going to sound very different from a 2203 through a 4x12" - and you can use different speakers to exaggerate it too, which will make them more useful. What speaker is in the 4104? For down-tuned hard rock I would use something like V30s or Classic Leads (or a pair of both) in the 4x12"...

Ché said:

I’ve seen a Friedman Smallbox head locally (keep forgetting about them) that could be interesting if I could get the cash together. 

I've only played one Friedman but I would say it's a one-sound amp - Van Halen in a box, but that's all it did.

Ché

ICBM said:

Even using the Low it will still be a bit noisy with the Pre and the Master full up, it's just the nature of it.

Turns out it was the EHX 360 looper pedal on my board causing most of the noise. Strange that as my Boss RC-3 does the same thing. As soon as you put it in the chain there's a ton of idle noise even with an isolated power supply.

I think with my current situation I could happily gig with the 4104 and run it with a 4x12. If I was going to get a head it would no doubt spend most of it's time in my studio so I'd want a different flavour of gain. I already have a Mesa, Vox and Fender so I was aiming at something plexi like.

I hear you with the low end benefits, would a 50w plexi be too loud even for gigging levels? I can stand to be in the same room as he 4104 on high sensitivity with the volumes maxed, which is on a par with my very loud drummer. I know a lot of Plexi sounds that I'm into come from ones that have been modded for more gain.

ICBM

At a gig you probably wouldn’t get away with a cranked 50W amp through a 4x12” these days - even if the combo is only about the same volume as the drummer in the studio. Firstly the 4x12” will be at least 3dB louder, and secondly gig sound engineers don’t tend to work like that...

Clearly what you need is an empty head box to put on the 4x12”, and connect the 4104 up round the back .

Ché

Haha, the PMT store near me has a few of them as facia for the counter.

Funny that, it's the 4x12's that are mostly empty at gigs these days

I was digging the 1960AX as a studio cab, you have any experience with these? For lower tuned stuff I know the mesa cabs are superior in low end but they're stupidly heay and cumbersome to carry around.

Ché

The more I think of it the more I’m tempted to sell all my amps and buy a Mesa TA-30 and a range of cabinets...

Focus on making music you know, rather than collecting amps....crazy thought I know!