Selmer refinished strat bodies

wrinkleygit

I have heard the story many times that Fender were only supplying black & sunburst strats to Selmers the importers in the early 60's, to keep up with demand for Shadows look alike guitars they had those bodies refinished in " salmon pink". Is there any way to identify those bodies, anybody know if Selmers marked them in any way ?

thermionic

Yes, they painted them salmon pink.

I have seen photos of a guitar in a book somewhere which had “LPB” crudely scratched under the pickguard, the LPB covering a sunburst. I think this was a factory refin though. I’d guess most would be showing the original paint, if not on wear and chips on the body, then small areas in the neck pocket?

Jimbro66

A friend of the family had bought a salmon pink Strat from Selmer’s shop in Charing Cross Road in late ‘62 or early ‘63. What he’d really wanted was a red Strat with maple board and gold hardware like Hank’s but Selmer only had salmon pink (which they optimistically called red) with rosewood board and chrome hardware so he had to settle for that. Why they painted them pink rather than red is anyone’s guess. I read somewhere that they were originally red but faded to  pink which is probably a load of tosh. His was pink from day one so had faded VERY quickly if that was true. He was never really happy with the colour so stripped it back and refinished it in white some years later. That was probably a Ford car colour because he worked in the spares dept of a Ford main dealer

Maybe Selmer bought a batch of Strats with consecutive serial numbers? That might be the only clue. Are there any still around in the original salmon pink paint? I’ve never seen one.

jimmyguitar

They exist but I also think there are more Selmer refins around nowadays than there were back in the 60’s! Very odd 

guitars4you

A story that is full of myth and legend, with lots of maybe's and probably's

Some will say the refin was down to handle the demand created for 'fiesta red' due to the Shadows - Yet sometime around the early 60's and The Shads were moving towards white

At the time Fender were imported by Jennings, then Selmer, yet most/all guitars were shipped in a carton with no case - Some will say that any refin was undertaken due to shipping damage - Selmer sold most with their own cases

Some will say any refin was undertaken by Dick Knight in the basement at the Selmer store on Charring Cross Rd - Some talk about them undertaken under a railway arch in Bethnal Green

Some will even say there were no refin's  undertaken by Selmer - I believe I've heard comments that say this is endorsed by Clive Brown as well - Don't quote me gospel on this but I've heard it more than once from different sources 

 The mystery continues on the Coral Pink, Flamingo Pink, Salmon Pink and Fiesta Red story - In part - The early 'Custom Color' models were done in whatever Dupont car paint was available at the time. When the paint can was empty in the spraying booth, a worker would rush down to the nearby paint store, for any colour paint that matched, or could be mixed up there and then - It appears that Fender had no paint stock control at the time

So it all adds to the myth

My question has always been, that let's assume there was a Selmer refin, then how do you tell this is an early 60's Selmer refin, over any other refin, be it 60's or 70's refin, undertaken by Tom, Dick or Harry - Why should we add any value to a 'Selmer' refin as against the one carried out  by Tom, Dick or harry - Both are a refin and as far as I know there is no/little actual clear cut provenance that goes with any 'Selmer refin' 

andrewaward

There is so little factual info out there on Selmer refins, personally I would never buy one costing more than a Tom, Dick or Harry refin equivalent , as there will always be question marks surrounding them...…..always have been and always will.

heavyrocker

As already said a refinish is a refinish regardless of who did it (unless it was Fender) so anyone claiming a Selmer refinished guitar is worth more is talking crap. 

Jimbro66

guitars4you said:

A story that is full of myth and legend, with lots of maybe's and probably's

Some will say the refin was down to handle the demand created for 'fiesta red' due to the Shadows - Yet sometime around the early 60's and The Shads were moving towards white............

My question has always been, that let's assume there was a Selmer refin, then how do you tell this is an early 60's Selmer refin, over any other refin, be it 60's or 70's refin, undertaken by Tom, Dick or Harry - Why should we add any value to a 'Selmer' refin as against the one carried out  by Tom, Dick or harry - Both are a refin and as far as I know there is no/little actual clear cut provenance that goes with any 'Selmer refin' 

I'm prepared to be corrected but I don't think Hank changed to a white Strat at that time. It was his change to Burns in about 1964 that coincided with the colour change. Bruce used a number of guitars but he had very little influence on players of that period compared to Hank.

The Strat bought by our family friend was described by Selmer as red even though it was clearly not and the friend, and no doubt many other youngsters of that time, was disappointed that it was not bright red like Hanks. He said the name salmon pink was not used to describe the colour until some years later. He thought his DIY white refin looked a lot better and I suspect that many others were also refinished. I've lost touch with that friend, who would now be in his seventies, but no doubt he would be bemused to think that the not-quite-red pink is now considered desirable.

guitars4you

Jimbro66 said:

guitars4you said:

A story that is full of myth and legend, with lots of maybe's and probably's

Some will say the refin was down to handle the demand created for 'fiesta red' due to the Shadows - Yet sometime around the early 60's and The Shads were moving towards white............

My question has always been, that let's assume there was a Selmer refin, then how do you tell this is an early 60's Selmer refin, over any other refin, be it 60's or 70's refin, undertaken by Tom, Dick or Harry - Why should we add any value to a 'Selmer' refin as against the one carried out  by Tom, Dick or harry - Both are a refin and as far as I know there is no/little actual clear cut provenance that goes with any 'Selmer refin' 

I'm prepared to be corrected but I don't think Hank changed to a white Strat at that time. It was his change to Burns in about 1964 that coincided with the colour change. Bruce used a number of guitars but he had very little influence on players of that period compared to Hank.

The Strat bought by our family friend was described by Selmer as red even though it was clearly not and the friend, and no doubt many other youngsters of that time, was disappointed that it was not bright red like Hanks. He said the name salmon pink was not used to describe the colour until some years later. He thought his DIY white refin looked a lot better and I suspect that many others were also refinished. I've lost touch with that friend, who would now be in his seventies, but no doubt he would be bemused to think that the not-quite-red pink is now considered desirable.

sorry and yes I did not mean to imply that Hank had a white Strat, more the change to Burns as you say - Typing to quickly

Look at a Fender Custom Colour chart of 1960 and no Salmon Pink or Coral Pink listed - So are these nick names later acquired for varies shades of fiesta red, that Fender painted at the time, from a different 'mixed' run/supply, hence the variations - Or from fading, UV, nicotine staining etc etc or indeed refins from a different paint source, or a different run of  'mixed' paint 

http://www.guitarhq.com/fenderc.html - one of the best sources to read - Not even sure if all is 100% correct, but certainly a lot of good info 

Jimbro66

guitars4you said:

Look at a Fender Custom Colour chart of 1960 and no Salmon Pink or Coral Pink listed - So are these nick names later acquired for varies shades of fiesta red, that Fender painted at the time, from a different 'mixed' run/supply, hence the variations - Or from fading, UV, nicotine staining etc etc or indeed refins from a different paint source, or a different run of  'mixed' paint 

http://www.guitarhq.com/fenderc.html - one of the best sources to read - Not even sure if all is 100% correct, but certainly a lot of good info 

That's a very interesting read. Judging by comments made by the Strat-owning friend, which I have no reason to doubt, he considered salmon pink to be a later nickname as his purchase receipt described the guitar simply as red. At the time of his 62/63 purchase he said there was no suggestion nor suspicion that Selmer had resprayed the bodies. That rumour came about years later.

If 'salmon pink' was a factory variation of Fiesta Red (Hank's colour) then you'd maybe assume some were sold in the States, not just by Selmer. A mystery indeed. The friend was quite adamant that his Strat was the pinkish colour when he bought it which seems to rule out fading, UV, nicotine, etc. And yes, his did come in a Selmer hard case, not a Fender branded one.

WezV

It's never goign to be the colour alone  that is used to identify an apparent Selmer refin... but if you have a pink one in a selmer case and a bit of additional provenance then you can start to consider it.

Fading of  red pigment can happen very fast, but you would expect them to fade at different rates and whist there is some variation I don't think there is enough for that to be the real explanation.

Grocer_Jack

Hank definitely used white Strats in 1963. Then Burns in 1964. 

Jimbro66

Grocer_Jack said:

Hank definitely used white Strats in 1963. Then Burns in 1964. 

Interesting. Any pics?

Grocer_Jack

Jimbro66 said:

Grocer_Jack said:

Hank definitely used white Strats in 1963. Then Burns in 1964. 

Interesting. Any pics?

A quick google search reveals a couple that I've seen before in books. Pretty certain they're from 63. Will look in a couple of books to check...

p90fool

My 63 was a Selmer-cased white refin, but I have no reason to assume they did it even though I have provenance for it being already white back to the late 60s. 

I'd forgotten about the whole salmon pink story, it seemed to die down when the internet started, possibly because it always was just a myth and the ability to research and cross check killed it.