Guitar kits for the complete noob

Paul7926

Hi all

I've been bombarding the forum with 'noob' style questions recently however this is my first foray into the Making & Modding section.  You lucky people you!

With Crimbo approaching I've started to cast my eyes over the kit guitar scene.  I've already discounted trying pedal kits because my soldering just isn't up to the standard needed for tiny pcb's and the diagnostic skill needed when it doesn't work is far beyond me.  So perhaps I could build an actual guitar.  However I'd like some honest feedback from people who can/have built these things as to what to expect.

I posses only basic DIY skills and the tools for that so I'm not going to have anything useful beyond screwdrivers, drills, and a cheap soldering iron and multimeter.  I don't mind some expense in that area if it leads to being able to do guitar set-ups for myself somewhere down the line but I'm not in the market for kitting out a workshop.

I'm not expecting to end up with a custom shop equivalent musical masterpiece either.  I'm going to make mistakes and plenty of them so just ending up with something playable whilst learning along the way is the real goal.  Frankenstein's monster has a charm of it's own anyway right? 

What bothers me the most I think is the quality of the pieces you get in the kit.  I understand that for the price the electronics and hardware are all going to be from the budget end of the spectrum.  I'm worried about the quality of the wood parts.  I mean it's going to be difficult enough I think without contending with a neck that could be used as a shortbow because of the bend in it.  I'm sure they wouldn't be that bad but I'm not going to be skilled enough to cope with addition hurdles presented over and above the challenge of the kit itself.

I've read a thread on here where someone with obvious talent and experience had put one together and then modded it quite significantly and they didn't seem to think the component parts were bad but that's only a sample of one.

Sorry for the wall of text but I'd appreciate the thoughts of anyone who has had experiences, good or bad, with kits.  So far I'm looking at something like this:

https://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/LA-Electric-Guitar-DIY-Kit/PZS

but if there are other suppliers/kits I should be considering that would help too.

Thanks

munckee

I haven't built a kit but I have built a tele by buying each component separately and wiring the loom and putting it all together.  If you scan the parts section here and check ebay/gumtree and the parts sellers like axecaster and alegree you can buy everything individually. 

You will certainly pay more than a kit but a lot of what comes in a kit you will replace.  Mine cost me over £500 but I bought a nitro finished allparts neck and a US telecaster body and had alegree make me a bespoke pickup.  If you bought used body, neck, pickups and electrics you could do it much cheaper.

I spent £30 on new gotoh tuners, £48 on new pots, caps, wire, switch, jack, socket and control plate, £13 on a pickguard, swapped some pickups for a neck pickup, £4 on a bone nut.  You could get a used neck for between £50 and £100 for a decent one (squier classic vibe etc) and maybe £50 on a body.

At the end of it you would have a much better guitar.  Or the other route is buy a used squier affinity or standard for £100ish and then just change each bit as you have the money, which I have also done and you still get the doing it part.

Gagaryn

What is your ultimate aim? Is it getting a guitar or is the project itself important to you.

How much do you want to spend? Muckee's advice on going down the parts route is sound.

Then ask yourself if it might not be wiser to just spend that amount on buying a finished guitar. Perhaps on a partscaster or similar and upgrading/modding that over time once you have an idea of what aspects of the guitar don't suit you or you'd like diffrent.

Paul7926

@munckee ;

I certainly don't intend this to get out of hand price wise at the start.  I appreciate what you are saying about the quality of the eventual instrument but for me at least, this would be more about the journey rather than the finished product.  Once confidence and GAS kicks in I could see perhaps updating the hardware in the future but baby steps to start with I think.

Not a bad idea about buying used cheap and experimenting that way.  I might consider that actually.  Potentially harder to be very creative with artistic body finishes but at least the donor guitar should start out playable!

Paul7926

@Gagaryn ;

The journey is more important than the destination in this case.  I don't see this as a quest for the 'perfect' guitar more as a vehicle for me to learn about basic guitar construction, maintenance and set-up without experimenting on something expensive.  If I end up with a playable instrument at the end all well and good.  If I wreck the fretboard or whatever in the attempt then so be it, I've not destroyed an expensive guitar that will cost a fortune to put right.

Alegree

I've just got some necks in and am looking to start offering such kits. Watching this thread and the thoughts that come out from it closely!

Danielsguitars

Is it a bolt on vs set neck kit you're looking for

Paul7926

customkits said:

Is it a bolt on vs set neck kit you're looking for

I'm looking at bolt on just to remove a potential area of disaster from the build and meaning that it could be easily removed and replaced should that become necessary.

Roland

A couple of years ago we did a build challenge using Thomann kits. Everybody thought they were decent quality kits. It might be worth you looking at some of the build threads in Making and Modding, eg http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/139718/q418c-roundthebend-eddie-vedder-black-p90-tele-replica and http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/35284/hb-telecaster

 I think that several people here have also tried the gear4music kits. Whilst I’ve no personal experience I expect that they are similar quality. Both Thomann and gear4music have reputations to defend, and won’t let the standard of their kits slip too far. The same cannot always be said of eBay and Amazon suppliers, so caveat emptor.

Kits are assembled to a price point. Most people replace pickups and other components. You don’t have to do that all at once. You can do component upgrades over time. This helps you understand what improvement each component brings, or doesn’t. The resulting guitar is ultimately limited by the quality of the wood.

If you want better quality wood then buying the body, neck, and components separately is the way to go. The limiting factor is the quality of the finish which you can achieve. If you’re happy with an oil based finish then fine. The automotive finish which you see on most showroom guitars takes time and experience. Even the experienced builders sometimes have to sand it all off and start again.

Sesh

I built a Saga Telecaster kit about 10 years ago. Currently, it is in bits again for a refinish, but that's another story. Back then there was far less choice, which is both good and bad. There looks like a fair few ropey kits out there. 
The g4m kits (as well as Thomann's) SEM to have a good rep. There's lots of threads on here about them, but personally I don't have any experience of them.
I chose a Tele over strat to keep things as simple as possible (i.e. no trem). It worked for me. Would I do another kit? Yes. However, i told myself that if I were to build another guitar I would do it from individually sourced parts. But, I should really finish the Tele first...
One thing to be aware of is that these kits don't just go together and you have a playable guitar. Varying degrees of fettling will be needed. Luckily, there are some really knowledgeable people to help us on here.

Paul7926

@Roland ;

Thanks for the Thomman tip and the threads.  I've spent most of the morning going through this section but there is so much there.  I'll give those a read too.  Like I say I did find this one:

http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/18377/finished-wezv-tele-build

Which made things at least sound simple enough for a scrub like me to investigate the possibilities.  Well right up to the point where he goes all 'pro' and puts a new top on it. 

I did plan to go all 'artsy' on the finish which will no doubt go the shape of the proverbial pear but again if I learn in the process then that is fine.  I do appreciate that for £70 or there about the components have to be cheap and that is actually part of the charm rather than a problem.  If I am going to end up with firewood then I'd rather pay £70 for it than a few hundred.  If I like the process then I'll consider the £70 a good investment to give me the confidence to do it all again with better materials.  Heck if I get no more out of it than knowing how to go about properly setting up a guitar that would be probably be good enough.

Paul7926

@Sesh ;

Yeah I get that things like fret levelling etc, need to be done rather than just bolting on the neck.  Those are the sort of things that interest me.  My fear was that because everything is so cheap there might be unseen dangers in things just not fitting well enough that a noob could address the problems.  I'm cynical so worry about a site with tons of glowing reviews so I thought I'd have an ask here for anyone that had actual experience. 

munckee

In terms of a finish I bought a squier strat and sanded it and sprayed it surf green and sprayed poly over it. Looked fine. If I did it again I would strip the poly off and nitro or oil it. 

Rocker

For the money, you will buy a finished working guitar for around the price of the kit.  The quality of electric guitars at the lower end (pricewise) of the market is very high these days.  It is unlikely that you will build a better guitar from a kit than buying one but as a challenge to yourself, a kit of parts is hard to beat.  Just don't expect miracles......

Andyjr1515

In 2014 The Fretboard Summer Challenge was to buy a Gear4Music kit and 'do something with it'.  

I seem to remember there were quite a lot of entries (I bet Gear4Music couldn't believe their luck!).  The threads will be still around, but no longer in a separate section and many of the photo links not working.  But, my recollection was that the great majority of us were pleasantly surprised at the quality of the machining and woods, considering the very low cost.
I think mine was typical - they used to do an offset - and this is my recollection:


- The wooden components were good.  Basswood body, not too many blemishes or discoloration.  I think mine was three piece?

- The neck, likewise was decent.  Nicely machined and mine fit with no more fettling than involved in fitting, say a replacement Squier or Fender neck


- truss rod was fine. Frets needed levelling as normal but were pretty well fitted


- some of the hardware was adequate.  Some a bit dubious


- I fitted some fancy pickups but I know, again, a number of folks were pleasantly surprised at the pickups.


- worth fitting decent pots and jack plug


-  worth trying the supplied trem (set it up carefully as with any and it will work fine) but there are plenty of decent and cheap upgrades available.  I suspect it is a thin body (like some of the Squiers) so if you do upgrade, check how deep the trem block hangs 


- don't even think of using the supplied strings and the also nut will be worth replacing with a proper one (not expensive)


Personally, if I was after a quick and cheap strat build I would have no hesitation in buying the one you highlight.


Oh - and what was the result of the Challenge?

I ended up gigging it as my go-to guitar for about 3 years!  And this was using the supplied 'Jazzmaster' trem which actually worked absolutely fine!    

 
 

Paul7926

@Andyjr1515 ;

Thanks for that, exactly the sort of breakdown I was after.

which reminds me I must figure out why I can't give 'Frets' to people, guess it's cos I'm still a noob.

Danielsguitars

I'd seriously look at just getting a guitar build body and a hosco neck or allparts or wd music and buy the rest to put it together, you've just got to make sure the neck will fit the neck pocket 

I think that's better than a cheap kit imo

Paul7926

@customkits  thanks I'll look into that.

Paul7926

Time to wrap this up I think.  Thanks to everyone for their comments and opinions.  It's focused me a lot on why I'm thinking about this.

For those that mention getting parts rather than an actual kit.  I see where you are coming from and I think that is the way to go if your priority is to build the best personalised guitar you can for your money.  I don't think I'm there yet but maybe in the future I'll try it.

Getting a second hand cheap guitar to experiment on is a good idea.  It doesn't fit for me now as I was initially looking into this to have something to shove on my 'Christmas List'.  I can't really expect people to go to all the bother of sourcing a second hand guitar.

So whilst there are drawbacks with the kit idea, specifically that the hardware and electrics would need upgrading and there is a natural ceiling to how good it could be imposed by the wood, I think for ease of sourcing and focusing on the experience it's the way I'll choose.  There seem to be enough threads around suggesting the quality is ok which was my biggest concern.

Of course, with the stupid Christmas contract get out clause of having to have been 'nice' you may see posts in January asking the best approach to fitting D'Addario's to a lump of coal......

Paul7926

Just as a follow on question at what point do cheap second hand guitars get too cheap even to be donor bodies for conversion?

Been looking around and finding brands I've never even heard of. For example a Peavey Raptor. 

EDIT:  Forget I asked, some investigative googling suggests that the body of a Peavey Raptor I (which I'm sure this is from the pictures) is made of plywood.  Now I know I'm new here but I don't remember any discussion where people are advocating plywood as desirable.

olafgarten

Paul7926 said:

Just as a follow on question at what point do cheap second hand guitars get too cheap even to be donor bodies for conversion?

Been looking around and finding brands I've never even heard of. For example a Peavey Raptor. 

EDIT:  Forget I asked, some investigative googling suggests that the body of a Peavey Raptor I (which I'm sure this is from the pictures) is made of plywood.  Now I know I'm new here but I don't remember any discussion where people are advocating plywood as desirable.

I'm quite sure the Raptor is Basswood, I don't think you can buy Plywood guitars anymore, it's cheaper to use a cheap solid wood.