Best Fret Size for Bends on a 7.25" Rad?

Bellycaster

Played a few Strats in Richtone yesterday and found my fear of the 7.25 radius was somewhat quelled, much to my surprise, I quite enjoyed them.

I think one was a Classic 60's Lacquer and other a MIJ Trad 60's Strat w/gold hardware, supposedly with a 7.25 according to spec sheet, but it seemed flatter.

Both have "Vintage" Frets on spec sheet and they played OK on bends, but what size are these? Are they like my Wolfgang frets 6105 size?

In your opinions, what is the best fret size for bends, not choking out etc? I thought fatter frets were supposedly better?

Thanks.

gringopig

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John_A

Bigger frets can make bends feel easier because there’s less contact with the fingers and the fretboard, but choking is a function of radius and nothing to do with fret size.  With bigger frets you can have the upper ones levelled in to a flatter radius which helps 

CasperCaster

Setup counts for a great deal with vintage style frets and radius. I mostly struggle with vintage style necks, but occasionally one works for me, including my old Japanese Paisley Tele which played beautifully. Of course, a medium action helps. However, I've played a few Mexican Roadworn models which have really impressed with their playability, and they have medium jumbo frets on the 7.25" vintage radius - try one if you can. 

fretfinder

If you do a lot of bending I would get a 9.5” radius neck or flatter. Unless you like a higher than average action. You can’t beat the laws of physics and with a 7.25” radius neck, bends will choke sooner than they will with a flatter radius (assuming the same action height).

springhead

I’ve got large frets (can’t remember which exactly, Gibson-ish) on my 7.25” strat. Recently took it to Feline for a setup and he has dressed all the frets but taken a sort of “U” shape approach to lowering the frets from around the 12th toward the body if that makes sense. I.e fret 21 fully lowered a little, fret 12 just a bit in the middle and all points in between. It’s given it a sort of compound radius and now has a lower action with less choking on bends. Not as slinky perhaps as a more modern profile board but kind of best of both worlds. Very nice setup job and now a very playable guitar. 

meltedbuzzbox

You can do big bends on 7.25 just fine.
Jimi managed it, I think Gilmore used a 7.25 rad as well plus many, many others.
It's really not the drama it's made out to be

Schnozz

I hate the 7.25" radius personally, but I can manage on it with medium frets - I can't with vintage frets.

fretfinder

meltedbuzzbox said:

You can do big bends on 7.25 just fine.
Jimi managed it, I think Gilmore used a 7.25 rad as well plus many, many others.
It's really not the drama it's made out to be

You can’t with a very low action, without choking, the laws of physics apply. Of course everyone can manage on a 7.25” board if they have to, like they had to back in the day. But there’s a reason why most new Fenders are made today (and have been for the last 20+ years) with a 9.5 radius board or flatter.

About 30 years ago I was chatting to the guys in Giffin Guitars under Kew Bridge. Roger or Stuart told me that they’d just got from Dave Gilmour a batch of AVRI Strats for an upcoming Floyd tour - all of the guitars were to have their fingerboards planed to a flatter radius and bigger frets installed.

Alterlifeson

As above, you can do big bends fine on a 7.25 radius, its just you have to compensate slightly with a higher action (although this is personal, one mans high action is anothers medium etc).

I currently own a 50's roadworn tele with 6105 frets and find it great, I have the action how I like it and bends don't prove an issue. However, I recently sold a 60's classic laquer with vintage sized frets which again played fine and I could bend til my hearts content, but it was always a balancing act between action and bendability. It seemed every week I was fiddling around trying to find the sweet spot, but for whatever reason couldn't find it.

TINMAN82

When a vintage spec guitar comes together well and is setup properly, in my experience, it can be difficult to tell it’s a 7.25 radius as it can play so easily, even with low action. I think the “laws of physics” also apply to a good setup and nicely made neck.

The David Gilmore story sounds slightly unlikely. Surely he’d be using custom shops strats masterbuilt to his spec, not AVRIs!

mburekenge

I think the main problem is when the vintage frets start wearing and pitting. Otherwise no worries

fretfinder

TINMAN82 said: The David Gilmore story sounds slightly unlikely. Surely he’d be using custom shops strats masterbuilt to his spec, not AVRIs!

It may sound unlikely but I was there and I’m not making it up, and I don’t think Roger Giffin was making it up either! He said Gilmour had brought the Strats back from the States, so maybe Dave had the pick from Fender HQ. Also, this was around ‘86 which was before the Custom Shop started (‘87) and well before there were any Masterbuilts, as far as I’m aware. I think the first player’s signature guitar (non-Custom Shop) was the Clapton Strat, introduced in 1988.

StuartMac290

Gilmour also used a Les Paul for the Another Brick In The Wall solo in order to play that big 5 semitone bend. You'd need a pretty high action to do that with a 7.25" radius

TINMAN82

fretfinder said:

TINMAN82 said: The David Gilmore story sounds slightly unlikely. Surely he’d be using custom shops strats masterbuilt to his spec, not AVRIs!

It may sound unlikely but I was there and I’m not making it up, and I don’t think Roger Giffin was making it up either! He said Gilmour had brought the Strats back from the States, so maybe Dave had the pick from Fender HQ. Also, this was around ‘86 which was before the Custom Shop started (‘87) and well before there were any Masterbuilts, as far as I’m aware. I think the first player’s signature guitar (non-Custom Shop) was the Clapton Strat, introduced in 1988.

That explains it then. Even more kudos to the AVRI line then!

Blueingreen

Back in the day I had a fretless wonder Gibson Custom.  I was a huge Peter Green and Carlos Santana fan, lots of controlled bends.  So I learned how to do them on that guitar.  But god it was a struggle.  Not helped by my wimpy hands, nothing like Hendrix's or Gilmour's.

If I'd had jumbo frets on the guitar I could have saved dozens if not hundreds of practice hours that could been spent on musical stuff, instead of the mechanics of bending.

Just because you CAN bend on a guitar with shallow frets or a narrow ration doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Bellycaster

Thanks Fellas. Plenty of wisdom here. Re the action, I can manage with a medium action, but don't like a high action. The ones in Richtone had an action comfortable to me and the bending was fine on them, but I can understand the need to play any Guitar with this radius before purchase.

As a slight aside, on Saturday we played a charity gig with another band of musicians who we know, they were doing a Queen tribute set. The Guitarist had an original Guild Brian May Red Special Replica. I think they have 7.25's? It had the most bizzare bridge/nut/trem system, it looked like something a NASA scientist had designed in their spare time.

The action on this Guitar was almost touching the board, ridiculously low and he was doing bends all over the place. Not sure what the fret size was on it though or whether the frets had been filed, it was unusual when I held it for a quick try.

The search continues, but I won't count out a 7.25 just yet.

Henrytwang

springhead said:

I’ve got large frets (can’t remember which exactly, Gibson-ish) on my 7.25” strat. Recently took it to Feline for a setup and he has dressed all the frets but taken a sort of “U” shape approach to lowering the frets from around the 12th toward the body if that makes sense. I.e fret 21 fully lowered a little, fret 12 just a bit in the middle and all points in between. It’s given it a sort of compound radius and now has a lower action with less choking on bends. Not as slinky perhaps as a more modern profile board but kind of best of both worlds. Very nice setup job and now a very playable guitar. 

I’ve had that done on one of my 7.25” radius Strats and as you say makes the guitar very playable with no choking even on big bends. Most good guitar techs know this trick .

FelineGuitars

Henrytwang said:

springhead said:

I’ve got large frets (can’t remember which exactly, Gibson-ish) on my 7.25” strat. Recently took it to Feline for a setup and he has dressed all the frets but taken a sort of “U” shape approach to lowering the frets from around the 12th toward the body if that makes sense. I.e fret 21 fully lowered a little, fret 12 just a bit in the middle and all points in between. It’s given it a sort of compound radius and now has a lower action with less choking on bends. Not as slinky perhaps as a more modern profile board but kind of best of both worlds. Very nice setup job and now a very playable guitar. 

I’ve had that done on one of my 7.25” radius Strats and as you say makes the guitar very playable with no choking even on big bends. Most good guitar techs know this trick .

Not sure I've heard it called " “U” shape approach to lowering the frets" before but we in all likelihood added what we refer to as fallaway from the 12th or 14th fret upwards - allowing for an almost compound radius-ing of the upper regions /clean bends. And yes most good techs will have this as one of their approaches (although they may call it a different name or have slightly differing methods of getting the same result.

springhead

FelineGuitars said:

Henrytwang said:

springhead said:

I’ve got large frets (can’t remember which exactly, Gibson-ish) on my 7.25” strat. Recently took it to Feline for a setup and he has dressed all the frets but taken a sort of “U” shape approach to lowering the frets from around the 12th toward the body if that makes sense. I.e fret 21 fully lowered a little, fret 12 just a bit in the middle and all points in between. It’s given it a sort of compound radius and now has a lower action with less choking on bends. Not as slinky perhaps as a more modern profile board but kind of best of both worlds. Very nice setup job and now a very playable guitar. 

I’ve had that done on one of my 7.25” radius Strats and as you say makes the guitar very playable with no choking even on big bends. Most good guitar techs know this trick .

Not sure I've heard it called " “U” shape approach to lowering the frets" before but we in all likelihood added what we refer to as fallaway from the 12th or 14th fret upwards - allowing for an almost compound radius-ing of the upper regions /clean bends. And yes most good techs will have this as one of their approaches (although they may call it a different name or have slightly differing methods of getting the same result.

Yes that's my description not yours!  Roughly the shape you showed me on the neck of the area you were going to work on.  And it's playing very nicely thank you!

Henrytwang

FelineGuitars said:

Henrytwang said:

springhead said:

I’ve got large frets (can’t remember which exactly, Gibson-ish) on my 7.25” strat. Recently took it to Feline for a setup and he has dressed all the frets but taken a sort of “U” shape approach to lowering the frets from around the 12th toward the body if that makes sense. I.e fret 21 fully lowered a little, fret 12 just a bit in the middle and all points in between. It’s given it a sort of compound radius and now has a lower action with less choking on bends. Not as slinky perhaps as a more modern profile board but kind of best of both worlds. Very nice setup job and now a very playable guitar. 

I’ve had that done on one of my 7.25” radius Strats and as you say makes the guitar very playable with no choking even on big bends. Most good guitar techs know this trick .

Not sure I've heard it called " “U” shape approach to lowering the frets" before but we in all likelihood added what we refer to as fallaway from the 12th or 14th fret upwards - allowing for an almost compound radius-ing of the upper regions /clean bends. And yes most good techs will have this as one of their approaches (although they may call it a different name or have slightly differing methods of getting the same result.

Yes I’d call it a sort of compound radiusing, years ago I went to a one day course on guitar setting up run by Robbie Gladwell, (aka Dr Robert), and he taught me how to do it.