Anyone tried double straps to prevent neck dive?

FatBastard

I have a 2016 SG Special HP. I like the guitar, but the combination of the  huge baseball bat like neck on that model along with the G-Force robot tuners will make it try and headbutt the ground whenever played standing up. I want the least invasive way of countering this, so was wondering if anyone had purchased a dual strap for this purpose and if it worked without being a ball and chain to wear. Something like this looks promising, but seventy quid seems a bit high on a punt for a bit of buckled leather unless I have good reason to believe it works. Thanks

Lebarque

No, don't be silly. Deal with it, or ditch the SG and play a better--designed guitar.

Whitecat

Jez Williams from Doves always used a double strap when I saw him play live... ES-335s for 98% of the set...

FatBastard

Lebarque said:

No, don't be silly. Deal with it, or ditch the SG and play a better--designed guitar.

In what way is this 'silly'? I have heard of instances where this was the answer.

skullfunkerry

I've never used one but I can't see how it would help the problem: the guitar is still being held by the same two points so the centre of gravity won't change, it'll just spread the weight over both shoulders.

I don't think there's any way of stopping neck dive apart from moving the strap buttons, and there aren't many places you could move them to on an SG.

skullfunkerry

What about a strap with a suede inner, so that it 'grips' your clothes, that might help?

Shelders

On my Epi SG I just found a small pouch, filled it with load of coins as a counter weight and taped it to the end of the strap. Worked fairly well. 

grungebob

Two options.  1) get a leather strap with a grabby back, this way there’s more friction to stop the neck diving so much or 2)Get a weighted strap made for you or make one yourself. Patch/pocket sown onto the body end of the strap and fill it with washers or fishing weights to counter balance. 


Actually three options, Ditch the robotuners for lighter weight manual ones. 

mrkb

Suede lined strap fixed a neck dive issue on a hollow body I have. Heistercamp have that option on loads of their straps.

fretfinder

How about supporting the neck with your left hand, so it doesn’t dive? 

stimpsonslostson

fretfinder said:

How about supporting the neck with your left hand, so it doesn’t dive? 

That’s what I do with my SG. It took me a few scares, but now I’ve ALWAYS got a hand on my guitar when it’s on the strap. 

LuttiS

Check planet waves, saw one a little while ago of their ''new super duper double back savings super strap" and it was less than £70...

LuttiS

Here you go - £16. At least you can see if it works before splashing on a nice leather one..


https://www.andertons.co.uk/planet-waves-dare-(50dare000)-black-guitar-strap

FelineGuitars

grungebob said:

Two options.  
1) get a leather strap with a grabby back, this way there’s more friction to stop the neck diving so much or

2)Get a weighted strap made for you or make one yourself. Patch/pocket sown onto the body end of the strap and fill it with washers or fishing weights to counter balance. 


Actually three options, Ditch the robotuners for lighter weight manual ones. 

These were my thoughts on the matter
Heavy tuners at the end of a LONG neck create more rotational force than on other guitars. 

Lighten the tuner weight and it could greatly reduce that effect

Lebarque

FatBastard said:

Lebarque said:

No, don't be silly. Deal with it, or ditch the SG and play a better--designed guitar.

In what way is this 'silly'? I have heard of instances where this was the answer.

Apols, just me being a drunken tool! I think the best solution here is to get a grippy strap, as others have said. But I stand by my 'get a more comfortable guitar' statement if it bothers you. I'm in the same boat - I've never got on with SG's or Telecasters because of the neck dive (and the fact that it feels like you're playing an ironing board!), so I usually stick to strat or Jazzmaster shapes, which are ergonomically perfect and don't suffer such issues.

ICBM

A chap I used to know had a 60s SG Special with bad neck dive. He cured it by fitting a large brass cowboy belt buckle to the strap just above the bottom strap button.

Bigsby

skullfunkerry said:

I don't think there's any way of stopping neck dive apart from moving the strap buttons, and there aren't many places you could move them to on an SG.

Actually it's easy, as long as you move the right button... which is the one on the rear, not the front. I did this on my '14 Standard, and it solved the neck dive instantly - but you'll only want to do this on a keeper, as it does involve drilling. FWIW, to correct strong neck dive, you'd need to move the front strap button to where it is on a Strat. I have seen this done on an SG - but the resulting metal contraption was not a good look!



Other options:
The best approach is to remove weight from the headstock - Tronical tuners or the locking Grovers that Gibson sometimes fit are about the same weight, and can cause quite severe neck dive. I suspect some people who recommend 'holding the neck' have not experienced that degree of neck dive. You really want your fretting hand to be playing the guitar, not holding it up. Try standing and playing without a strap and see how much you ability is reduced. Of course, if you want to use the Tronical tuners (as I do), you need an alternative  option.

Adding weight at the body end (cavity, strap, etc.) seems to work for some people. Adding a Bigsby did nothing to help on that '14, and personally, I'd rather not make a light guitar heavy. Also, due to the physics, you'd need to add a lot more weight than you'd need to remove from the headstock.

Grippy strap: Will help with the immediate 'drop', but it will also gradually drag on what it's gripping, so you can expect a T-shirt to get progressively dragged over one shoulder.

When it comes to construction, it could be an easy fix: I have a Supreme with a maple cap and Diablo carve - it still has neck dive (larger headstock and Grovers don't help!), but the extra body weight compensates for the heavy headstock, and reduces neck dive to a level where a grippy strap, and even 'holding the neck' are effective solutions. 

The problem with discussions online is that some people simply haven't encountered the full extent of the neck dive you can get with an SG - they're not all the same.

Adey

I had an SG ages ago. It dived like everyone elses.

The root cause is one of physics. The centre of gravity is too far forward compared to the two support locations - the two strap pins. The solution is really one of two options:-

Move the centre of gravity back, by adding weight at the tail of the guitar, or by removing it from the headstock end.

or

You can move the supporting locations relative to the existing centre of gravity. Moving the front strap button isn't a great choice. You could rig a short "strap" up that is flat on the back of the guitar between the two buttons, and then find the ideal place to connect the back end of your proper guitar strap to that.

But I'd just stick some weights on the back of the strap, if I really wanted to keep the SG...

Wide, grippy straps sort of work, but rely of how well yoou clothing will transmit the forces without undressing you...!

FatBastard

LuttiS said:

Here you go - £16. At least you can see if it works before splashing on a nice leather one..


https://www.andertons.co.uk/planet-waves-dare-(50dare000)-black-guitar-strap

Thanks for that. I had already seen that but the reviews on Amazon are very poor and say the connector is too low quality to secure it.

FatBastard

skullfunkerry said:

I've never used one but I can't see how it would help the problem: the guitar is still being held by the same two points so the centre of gravity won't change, it'll just spread the weight over both shoulders.

I don't think there's any way of stopping neck dive apart from moving the strap buttons, and there aren't many places you could move them to on an SG.

I'm not sure of the physics either, but I have read on other forums of the odd person who eliminated it by wearing a double strapped harness type guitar strap. I just wanted to hear if anyone had done the same here.

FatBastard

Lebarque said:

FatBastard said:

Lebarque said:

No, don't be silly. Deal with it, or ditch the SG and play a better--designed guitar.

In what way is this 'silly'? I have heard of instances where this was the answer.

Apols, just me being a drunken tool! I think the best solution here is to get a grippy strap, as others have said. But I stand by my 'get a more comfortable guitar' statement if it bothers you. I'm in the same boat - I've never got on with SG's or Telecasters because of the neck dive (and the fact that it feels like you're playing an ironing board!), so I usually stick to strat or Jazzmaster shapes, which are ergonomically perfect and don't suffer such issues.

I like the guitar enough to not chuck it and I will continue to support it with my left hand if I dont find a workable solution. I do wonder if it will not be the guitar I pick up by default eventually though if it is not particularly comfortable.