fix acoustic guitar timing issues

domforr

I've got a track recorded by someone that is quite loosely played and has some timing issues that I need to fix.

I can't really ask him to do it again as it was a session and he's using some weird tuning, so I'm not sure I could play it again either. Basically, I like what he's done, but need to fix the rhythm a bit so it sits with the vocal better.

Any ideas what the best approach to this is? Things I've considered:

1) Going through each bit and moving and adjusting dodgy sections manually -  seems very time consuming and quite tricky to only fix the bad bits without ruining the feel

2) Dynamic split and then quantize. Seems to lose some feel again and seems to be less well suited to something like an acoustic guitar than to say a bass.


I'm working in Reaper, so I'm not sure if there are any other tools that would be suited to this task?

spark240

Not sure about reaper, but do you have a transient detection option?...you can use this to Pinpoint the regular attack notes then manipulate to a time signature,....I think !

domforr

It does seem to have the option but I havn't figured out how it works yet.

dogload

I find that your 'Option 1' of doing it manually works best for me. Automatic adjustment might rob the track of it's feel. 

domforr

Yes, I think you may be right. Its a long and tedious process, but quantising just doesn't do it on guitar for me. 

spark240

Mm.....manipulation using transient detect isn’t so much of a quantize ..if done correctly it just matches up the start and end of each bar so overall the track feels in time, but the feel is still there, if it’s really bad then Manual may be the best way.

domforr

That sounds great - I just have no idea how to do it in Reaper!

Paul_C

https://www.reaper.fm/userguide/ReaperUserGuide5961d.pdf

https://forum.cockos.com/forumdisplay.php?s=d0bd90efa0252617497670991e6804b5&f=21 

Funkfingers

domforr said:

I've got a track, recorded by someone, that is quite loosely played and has some timing issues that I need to fix.

My musical collaborator regularly presents me with similar timing issues. Depending on how advanced the Project is, my options are:

1. to manipulate the MIDI drumming note data to fit the guitar timing.
2. to Time Stretch my collaborator's guitar parts to lock in better with the rest of the arrangement.

As with the other processes already mentioned in this thread, Time Stretch is capable of ruining a performance with sonic aberrations.

Manual editing may be a drag but, in the OP's circumstances, it is often the only workable solution. 

domforr

Yep, I think I agree. Particularly as its not just making it in sync with the metronome, but having the rhythm fit the other instruments/vocals, which are unlikely to be perfectly played either. I tried a bit of correction which sounded on the beat, but then brought the vocals in and it wasn't sitting at all. 

victorludorum

You say it was a session; did you pay the person for the track? I presume that you didn't, as you're going to all this trouble to fix it, but if you did, surely asking them to do it again is only fair if they've not done a good job.

domforr

It was paid for actually. He's mainly a fiddle player though, so the guitar was just an add on and I'm not sure he could improve on it with another take. His style is loose, but he has a good feel, so its a tricky one to get the balance right.

flying_pie

How about re-recording the vocal to go with the accompaniment?

domforr

I'd have to re-record the fiddle and bouzouki as well then :-)

andy_k

I've been messing about with time stretching a bit in Reaper lately, the track I wanted was built around a loop, but then had been manipulated to work with a long rhythmic dialog.
I wanted to re-do the drums , so my first effort involved using splits in the looped track, at every say 8 bars, and then using stretch to line it up with my new 8 bar drum loops, it worked ok but was very tedious.
so  I tried again, using the tempo detect in Logic, which added a lot of tempo information to my looped track, then I re-imported into Reaper-which allowed my 8 bar drum loops to follow the tempo information from Logic.
Neither option was perfect--but I did learn a lot along the way as to how GOOD reaper is, once you understand how it is working.
Easy to split a track and use a modifier-option -i think, to just drag it to stretch / compress a section to line up transients.
Kenny Gioia will have a vid on youtube to show you many ways to make this work, even over a multi mic'd drum session.
cheers