Why would anyone buy a vinyl playing setup?

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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 19269
    I am the juice of four limes.
    Trading Feedback

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  • vizviz Frets: 5097
    edited November 28
    octatonic said:
    And the progressive deterioration of the vinyl surface over use! 
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  • RobDaviesRobDavies Frets: 1834
    I tried with vinyl.... bought a Rega Planar 3 and a Rega Elys 2 cartridge.   Sounds pretty good but it's all so bloody inconvenient.  
    Even more inconvenient is when your favourite artists insist on releasing everything as a double album, meaning you have to change sides every two songs. 

    Decent quality second hand vinyl is expensive, too. 

    Infact, if anyone wants to buy the above set up, pm me....
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  • JalapenoJalapeno Frets: 3444
    viz said:
    octatonic said:
    And the progressive deterioration of the vinyl surface over use! 
    re:OP - combination of Fashion and Fetish.
    Imagine something sharp and witty here ......

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  • munckeemunckee Frets: 2100
    THE FINAL WORD: DOWNLOADS DON'T HAVE A COVER YOU CAN SKIN UP ON
    No but the size phone screens are getting now you can skin up on those.
    tablets, yes. maybe a smartphone but IMO that's as fiddly as a CD case and you're just as likely to lose your stash on the floor.
    But you can access amazon music and whatsapp your dealer on the phone!

    blobb said:
    Ozrics - Curious corn. I think it's perforated so you can write peoples phone numbers on and tear off a section, or something like that. Like the same way Jurassic shift album cover was made out of Hemp for environmental reasons!
    I saw ozrics play live some years ago, I can't remember when or where or whether they were any good : )
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  • darthed1981darthed1981 Frets: 2364
    edited November 28
    munckee said:
    THE FINAL WORD: DOWNLOADS DON'T HAVE A COVER YOU CAN SKIN UP ON
    No but the size phone screens are getting now you can skin up on those.
    tablets, yes. maybe a smartphone but IMO that's as fiddly as a CD case and you're just as likely to lose your stash on the floor.
    But you can access amazon music and whatsapp your dealer on the phone!

    Phil rejected whatsapp because it won't run from the terminal... ;)
    Warning: this post may contain overtly affectionate references to Mary Spender
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  • robertyroberty Frets: 666
    munckee said:
    THE FINAL WORD: DOWNLOADS DON'T HAVE A COVER YOU CAN SKIN UP ON
    No but the size phone screens are getting now you can skin up on those.
    tablets, yes. maybe a smartphone but IMO that's as fiddly as a CD case and you're just as likely to lose your stash on the floor.
    But you can access amazon music and whatsapp your dealer on the phone!

    Phil rejected whatsapp because it won't run from the terminal... ;)
    Phone screens are perfect for racking up lines, that's what all the millennials are doing now, and probably why, too
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 33914
    roberty said:

    Modern digital sources and modern amplifiers are transparent, the only places where audible distortions occur are in the speakers and the room.  A third source of distortion would be a vinyl front end.  So speakers should be the first priority for any system I think.  Amplifiers can be chosen based on build quality, wattage and features.  You can start with a modest turntable and it still be fun, probably more so than when heavily invested
    Much of what people like about 'the sound of vinyl' is its deficiencies in EQ, dynamic response, channel separation and the distortion it introduces. So it wouldn't be impossible - and in fact it surprises me that it hasn't yet been done, if in fact it hasn't and I'm simply not aware of it - to deliberately process a digital signal to reproduce those and give 'the sound of vinyl'.

    I like listening to vinyl at a friend's house who has a big collection, but I think a large part of it is the definitely not hi-fi 1960s valve record player - with integral elliptical speakers - he has. I would guess that if you hooked a CD player up to the aux input it would sound pretty similar.

    I'm probably a philistine but I honestly don't care that much - it's nice to put a record on and listen to it, but it's also nice to put a CD on and listen to it, or to have an endless stream of AAC files playing while I'm working through a mono cab with a big old sound not dissimilar from AM radio.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 14664
    ICBM said:

    I'm probably a philistine but I honestly don't care that much 
    I think that makes you the very opposite of a philistine - you appreciate the painting, not the paintbrushes.
    Parachutes are great, for dogs and Frenchmen. 
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  • darthed1981darthed1981 Frets: 2364
    ICBM said:
    I'm probably a philistine but I honestly don't care that much - it's nice to put a record on and listen to it, but it's also nice to put a CD on and listen to it, or to have an endless stream of AAC files playing while I'm working through a mono cab with a big old sound not dissimilar from AM radio.
    Exactly, it's about the choons, not the reproduction of them.
    Warning: this post may contain overtly affectionate references to Mary Spender
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  • roberty said:

    So much so, that I would be more inclined to focus on good speakers etc than what format the music is in....

    Modern digital sources and modern amplifiers are transparent, the only places where audible distortions occur are in the speakers and the room.  A third source of distortion would be a vinyl front end.  So speakers should be the first priority for any system I think.  Amplifiers can be chosen based on build quality, wattage and features.  You can start with a modest turntable and it still be fun, probably more so than when heavily invested
    I'm not entirely convinced. IMO the GIGO principle applies. Most amplifiers even cheap ones will reproduce the usual audio range +/-3dB with 0,1% distortion. Speakers ARE important (as is placement) but I've seen (and heard) mediocre systems with cheap Japanese electronics and half-decent speakers transformed by upgrading the front end. (Which was a turntable). I also don't believe modern digital sources are that transparent, having compared various CD players through the same amp/speaker setup. The most civilised sounding are the Marantz jobs; I've also got a Rotel that isn't bad either.
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • I still think CD was invented by a chap who didn't want to turf the cat off his lap every 20 min
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • blobbblobb Frets: 938
    munckee said:


    blobb said:
    Ozrics - Curious corn. I think it's perforated so you can write peoples phone numbers on and tear off a section, or something like that. Like the same way Jurassic shift album cover was made out of Hemp for environmental reasons!
    I saw ozrics play live some years ago, I can't remember when or where or whether they were any good : )
    If you can remember it, you weren't there! And without a doubt they were good, they always are. I used to like taking Ozric virgins along and watching the expression on their faces when fruit salad light show kicked in. 
    Feelin' Reelin' & Squeelin'
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  • Tone71Tone71 Frets: 284
    edited November 28
    In '91 we went to Hawkwind's 12 hour technicolour dream gig with a surprise guest at 4am, we all thought it was Ozrics as they had played the year before and it was the main reason for going.

    Through dilated pupils we waited expectantly only for Hawkwind to come back on!!

    Gutted I never got got see them, great band.
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  • RockerRocker Frets: 2831
    As soon as you buy music because of the format in comes in, you've lost.

    Good streaming playback is more than adequate for most listening situations, and I'll wager pretty much no-one here would be able to tell the difference between high-end digital sources (ie. CDs or lossless streaming) and high-end analogue sources (ie. vinyl).

    It's another hipster-led fad, encouraged by the music industry as it's another revenue stream for them.

    Bah!

    You are right my friend but, and there is a big but, only when the replay systems are up to scratch.  Vinyl is far from perfect but so too is CD.  Get the technology right and the music literally speaks for itself.  The notion of a 'vinyl sound' is basically imperfections in the replay.  Ditto the so called 'clinically clean' sound of CD.

    Vinyl is a mechanical system of music reproduction.  The cartridge uses a stylus to generate two separate electrical signals.  These signals are very weak and certain frequencies are boosted in the process of mastering for vinyl.  The signal goes to a phono stage that boosts the signal to line level and compensates for the boosted frequencies.  Thus giving a more or less flat frequency signal to the amplifer.  The problem is that chain of events is very long.  First question is why use vinyl unless sound quality is the requirement?  CD or ripped or streamed is much simpler to implement so the decision to use vinyl is for the best sound quality.  Everything in the chain has to be up to the task, one weak bit and the sound quality goes out the window.  Sorry guys, but the equipment costs serious money.  Get it right and it sounds great.  Not a hint of warmth or cuddly sound - simply the music.  The much derided pops and crackles are there but they do not get in the way of the music.  But it costs a lot to get to that level of performance.  Think a good new family car price.  At the very least.

    Digital on the other hand started poorly but got better incrementally.  Fifteen years ago a £1K vinyl system would easily better a £1K digital system.  Not any more as DAC technology has improved by leaps and bounds.  A simple system comprising FLAC files on a computer, a USB DAC like the JKCuinas feeding a mid priced stereo amp and speakers is a revelation.  Jaw dropping sound quality for relatively small money.  Small that is when compared to the equivalent sound quality on vinyl.

    The Linn LP12 was the standard deck for many years.  It still sounds good but is way down the list of good turntables these days.  The LP12 adds a bloom to the bass and is in some ways responsible for the belief that vinyl sounds 'warm'.  But use a really good deck and that warmth disappears.  Much like the best examples of CD replay.  Ironically it was CD that highlighted this weakness in vinyl.

    Which was why I asked the question in the OP.  Why buy vinyl......?
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [Albert Einstein]

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  • Paul_CPaul_C Frets: 4470

    I've mentioned this before (and I'll accept it might not be the best example, but it's what I had to hand at the time) that when I bought Atoms For Peace - Amok, it came with both vinyl and CD, so I put the vinyl on my 34 year old Thorens TD166MkII and the CD into my PC and played both at the same time through a Pioneer amp and equally old Heybrook HB1s, switching back and forth between the two.

    No difference whatsoever that I could hear.
    CEO ACME Moats Inc.
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  • Paul_C said:

    I've mentioned this before (and I'll accept it might not be the best example, but it's what I had to hand at the time) that when I bought Atoms For Peace - Amok, it came with both vinyl and CD, so I put the vinyl on my 34 year old Thorens TD166MkII and the CD into my PC and played both at the same time through a Pioneer amp and equally old Heybrook HB1s, switching back and forth between the two.

    No difference whatsoever that I could hear.
    Whereas I did the same with Traffic On The Road, and the CD was unlistenable ... I think a little has been learned bout CD mastering since then, though.
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • robertyroberty Frets: 666
    roberty said:

    So much so, that I would be more inclined to focus on good speakers etc than what format the music is in....

    Modern digital sources and modern amplifiers are transparent, the only places where audible distortions occur are in the speakers and the room.  A third source of distortion would be a vinyl front end.  So speakers should be the first priority for any system I think.  Amplifiers can be chosen based on build quality, wattage and features.  You can start with a modest turntable and it still be fun, probably more so than when heavily invested
    I'm not entirely convinced. IMO the GIGO principle applies. Most amplifiers even cheap ones will reproduce the usual audio range +/-3dB with 0,1% distortion. Speakers ARE important (as is placement) but I've seen (and heard) mediocre systems with cheap Japanese electronics and half-decent speakers transformed by upgrading the front end. (Which was a turntable). I also don't believe modern digital sources are that transparent, having compared various CD players through the same amp/speaker setup. The most civilised sounding are the Marantz jobs; I've also got a Rotel that isn't bad either.
    Digital audio is a problem that has been solved. There are no measurable differences in modern digital sources big enough to be audible. We listen with our eyes and expectations so the only valid objective comparisons are blind tests
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  • Musicman20Musicman20 Frets: 619
    edited November 29
    I buy vinyl and use the codes to get the album on mp3 to then use on my computer/iPod/phone.

    The vinyl itself is very fun to collect. Listening to it IS a different experience. You are forced not to rush around. You have to look at it, turn it over, then you realise the reason why you buy it.

    I was a CD-era teenager and I've not sold any of my old CDs. When I have a big enough place they'll be out from storage.

    Music is one of the greatest things in the world; I advise people to keep their old CDs/tapes/vinyl. 
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  • robinbowesrobinbowes Frets: 1840
    I buy vinyl and use the codes to get the album on mp3 to then use on my computer/iPod/phone.
    Despite everything I have said, I also do this. I never listen to the vinyl. In fact, I only open any cellophane packaging if the access codes are inside - I don't have a turntable setup.

    There's something to be said about the appeal of 12" vinyl packaging - they're so much more pleasing to handle than CDs.

    R.
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  • The vinyl I bought, I think I've only played a few records so far on my sister's player. The rest are in storage. I'm not sure if having a small collection of records defeats the purpose of having a "collection". But it might be a good thing in that I might only buy 1 or 2 records a year and actually listen to them properly. It just seems so much easier to stream and/or play CDs :(
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  • BigLicks67BigLicks67 Frets: 526
    I've got music on all formats, I even have a fully working twin deck Kenwood tape player. I like listening to my old records so I have a turntable, but I also buy new vinyl but on a limited basis for particular artists. Most of my purchases are CD's or downloads. I don't see any probs with enjoying all the formats that are available.
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  • vizviz Frets: 5097
    edited November 30
    I am aware of the irony of trying to demonstrate the beauty of vinyl by recording it on an iphone and uploading it to a low res video site and you people listening to it on your phones! - but I thought it might be interesting for people to hear what a good record player can convey in terms of detail at least.

    Obviously you can’t hear any of the fullness and depth, or even some details, and definitely not the balance of frequencies that actually sound in the room, but the level of detail that comes across may be surprising to those who haven’t heard records before. Or maybe not. I don’t know! :)

    https://youtu.be/F_A8D6bTaPY
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  • robertyroberty Frets: 666
    viz said:
    I am aware of the irony of trying to demonstrate the beauty of vinyl by recording it on an iphone and uploading it to a low res video site and you people listening to it on your phones! - but I thought it might be interesting for people to hear what a good record player can convey in terms of detail at least.

    Obviously you can’t hear any of the fullness and depth, or even some details, and definitely not the balance of frequencies that actually sound in the room, but the level of detail that comes across may be surprising to those who haven’t heard records before. Or maybe not. I don’t know! :)

    https://youtu.be/F_A8D6bTaPY
    I love 80's pop on vinyl - plentiful and non-collectible so affordable!  80s pressings sound great as well, even the light pressings, better than most new stuff I think

    Is that a Rega @viz? ; What speakers are you running?  Sounds like a nice rig
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  • vizviz Frets: 5097
    edited November 30
    roberty said:


    I love 80's pop on vinyl - plentiful and non-collectible so affordable!  80s pressings sound great as well, even the light pressings, better than most new stuff I think

    Is that a Rega @viz? ;; What speakers are you running?  Sounds like a nice rig
    Yes, 80s was definitely the best decade for music

    it’s a Kuzma deck and PMC speakers. They’re both really neutral. 
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  • robinbowesrobinbowes Frets: 1840
    viz said:
    I am aware of the irony of trying to demonstrate the beauty of vinyl by recording it on an iphone and uploading it to a low res video site and you people listening to it on your phones! - but I thought it might be interesting for people to hear what a good record player can convey in terms of detail at least.

    Obviously you can’t hear any of the fullness and depth, or even some details, and definitely not the balance of frequencies that actually sound in the room, but the level of detail that comes across may be surprising to those who haven’t heard records before. Or maybe not. I don’t know! :)

    https://youtu.be/F_A8D6bTaPY

    I just played the song on Spotify and it's miles better than this. ;)

    R.
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  • vizviz Frets: 5097

    I just played the song on Spotify and it's miles better than this. ;)

    R.
    :D
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  • robertyroberty Frets: 666
    viz said:
    roberty said:


    I love 80's pop on vinyl - plentiful and non-collectible so affordable!  80s pressings sound great as well, even the light pressings, better than most new stuff I think

    Is that a Rega @viz? ;; What speakers are you running?  Sounds like a nice rig
    Yes, 80s was definitely the best decade for music

    it’s a Kuzma deck and PMC speakers. They’re both really neutral. 
    No way, I have PMC speakers too. They are perfect I'd say, near enough. The only speakers I've owned that sound just as good with all genres and decades of music
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  • lasermonkeylasermonkey Frets: 1106
    I have a pair of PMC TB-2s in the home studio and they sound so good that I'm tempted to replace my Mission 752Fs with a set.
    My wife asked me to stop singing Wonderwall.
    I said maybe.....
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  • vizviz Frets: 5097
    I have a pair of PMC TB-2s in the home studio and they sound so good that I'm tempted to replace my Mission 752Fs with a set.
    Yes, or maybe some twenty 21? There was a pair on ebay for 750-ish recently
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