Tonic sol-fa

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Is it of any use?

I get Root (or 1),2,3,4,5,6,7. I've learned Tonic Supertonic Mediant SubDominant Dominant SubMediant and LeadingNote.

The only way I can remember the order of Doh etc (I loved Homer Simpsons version btw) is to think of the Hawkwind album.

So what does Doremi Sofa Latido actually do for you? Just seems like a lot of silly names to learn for no real purpose!
"Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
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  • StuckfastStuckfast Frets: 373
    Wasn't it a 19th century workers' education type thing, the idea being to create a form of sheet music that could cheaply and easily be distributed to choirs and so forth where people hadn't learned to read conventional notation? I can't much see the need for it if you're comfortable with ordinary notation.
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 14409
    My cello teacher uses it quite a bit. It's nice for transposition and getting the feel of a piece. Also good for modes. 
    Parachutes are great, for dogs and Frenchmen. 
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  • FreebirdFreebird Frets: 1039
    edited November 26
    I always think in terms of 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 & I ii iii IV V vi vii° when putting things together.

    So if you play a IV chord for example, you will know the chord tones are 4,6,1 and the non-chord tones are 5,7,2,3.

    Everything else is Superfluous  
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  • AFAIK it has roots (scuse pun) in monks' notation for chanting. I get that it has had its uses in telling otherwise untutored musically-inclined people which scale degree to sing or play but apart from that why would anyone use it?
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • vizviz Frets: 5093
    AFAIK it has roots (scuse pun) in monks' notation for chanting. I get that it has had its uses in telling otherwise untutored musically-inclined people which scale degree to sing or play but apart from that why would anyone use it?
    It’s just one of the many alternatives for nomenclature. Like you, I prefer tonic, supertonic, etc., because the words mean more. 
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  • merlinmerlin Frets: 1555
    Tonic Sol-Fa is a superb tool for sight singing in any key. It just works if you learn it correctly.
    Learning all the intervals is the way forward. 

    I can look at a sheet of music and hear it in my head without relating it to my instrument, because of TSF. 
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  • vizviz Frets: 5093
    edited November 28
    merlin said:
    Tonic Sol-Fa is a superb tool for sight singing in any key. It just works if you learn it correctly.
    Learning all the intervals is the way forward. 

    I can look at a sheet of music and hear it in my head without relating it to my instrument, because of TSF. 
    Interesting. Isn’t that simply because you can read music and audiate it (is that the right word)? Surely just knowing the intervals instinctively is a much more straight-line to being able to sing than referring to them via solfège? Maybe I’m wrong, maybe it depends on how one’s been indoctrinated into music, but do you not just read it and your brain converts it directly into sound without referring to solfège?
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  • merlinmerlin Frets: 1555
    @viz it's like learning any technique, over time it becomes second nature. I no longer use the doh-re-mi names but I learnt using TSF.

    The point is that as long as you know the pitch of the tonic, THAT becomes doh. You can read on any clef and in any key once you establish the tonic. 
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  • vizviz Frets: 5093
    merlin said:
    @viz it's like learning any technique, over time it becomes second nature. I no longer use the doh-re-mi names but I learnt using TSF.

    The point is that as long as you know the pitch of the tonic, THAT becomes doh. You can read on any clef and in any key once you establish the tonic. 
    Sure, I know, fair enough. Cheers :)
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  • merlin said:
    @viz it's like learning any technique, over time it becomes second nature. I no longer use the doh-re-mi names but I learnt using TSF.

    The point is that as long as you know the pitch of the tonic, THAT becomes doh. You can read on any clef and in any key once you establish the tonic. 
    but why call it "doh" unless you are Homer Simpson? It is after all only the root or Tonic of the scale. And like you I've read music in bass tenor alto and treble clefs, except that I never used TSF for it.
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 2174
    Originally Doh was Ut from the Latin Ut queant laxīs. Giovanni Doni personalised it to Do.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solfège. See under Origin. 
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 14409
    On free-pitch instruments it's quite useful for tuning accuracy. 
    Parachutes are great, for dogs and Frenchmen. 
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  • Roland said:
    Originally Doh was Ut from the Latin Ut queant laxīs. Giovanni Doni personalised it to Do.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solfège. See under Origin. 
    I looked up that web page. Way too complicated. Numeric scale degrees for me every time, or the proper names for scale degrees where appropriate (eg the term leading note is not likely to be confused with a maj 7 chord).
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • Stuckfast said:
    Still too complicated, although I grant you it's simpler than that other one. Wouldn't it be so much easier if people just learned to read properly?
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • StuckfastStuckfast Frets: 373
    I suspect that part of the appeal, back in the day, was that it would have been much cheaper to produce. Music notation engraving was and is a highly skilled and expensive business. Just writing out do, re, mi is probably quite a lot easier.
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 14409
    Stuckfast said:
    Still too complicated, although I grant you it's simpler than that other one. Wouldn't it be so much easier if people just learned to read properly?
    I use both. It's just a different way of mapping the relationships between the notes; I find it quite effective.
    Parachutes are great, for dogs and Frenchmen. 
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