Graphite nuts and graphite string saddles.

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seany65seany65 Frets: 264
I've been trying to do a few 1 or 2 fret bends on my guitar and the strings seem 'stiffer' than on my previous guitars, even though the strings have always been 10's on every guitar. My present guitar also goes out of tune after a few bends, which wasn't the case with my previous guitars. I know of the old 'rubbing a pencil on the string grooves' and the 'nut sauce' solutions, but I can't be arsed doing any of that. This has made me think about getting a graphite nut. From what I understand, the tuning stability will improve a little, but the sound of the open strings will also change a little, eg. going a little less bright with a little less sustain. I don't mind those, as brightness and sustain can be added. But I also understand that the open sound would now differ from the fretted sound.

For the sake of argument let's give a non graphite-equipped guitar a sound value of ' 0 ' and a graphite nut-equipped guitar a sound value of   ' -1 ' to show the less bright sound caused by the graphite:

Normal Guitar : Open strings ' 0 ' and fretted notes ' 0 '.

 Graphite nut Guitar : Open strings ' -1 ' and fretted notes ' 0 '.

Is that right so far?

What would happen if graphite string saddles were  installed?

Would we get :

Normal nut/ graphite saddles Guitar: open strings ' -1 ' and fretted notes ' -1 '.

Graphite nut/ graphite saddles Guitar: open strings ' -2 ' and fretted notes ' -1 '.

Am I anywhere near right? Also, would graphite saddles affect the sustain? What about the metal saddles with graphite inserts?

Any help would be much appreciated.








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Comments

  • guitargeek62guitargeek62 Frets: 4067
    I think you're overthinking it.
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  • horsehorse Frets: 1563
    Does your finger / fret produce exactly the same response/tone as your current nut on open strings? That's already quite a difference of materials in play.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71962
    In my experience a properly cut and lubricated *hard* nut (I'm sure there must be something suggestive about that ;) ) gives better tuning stability than a graphite nut. The graphite plastic material is too soft and will 'grab' the strings, especially the wound ones. Lubing is not much of a hassle compared to replacing a nut either.

    Graphite saddles are more to prevent string breakage than for tuning stability, and in my opinion they do affect the tone a bit.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • guitargeek62guitargeek62 Frets: 4067
    Stupid question time: Does the guitar you're playing now have a longer scale-length (nut to saddle) than the others? That would explain the stiffness, as would things like break angle over the saddle or nut, and any string length behind either too.
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  • ElectroDanElectroDan Frets: 554
    I once changed a Strat's saddles to Graphite ones and can't say I noticed a difference. I'd get it checked over by a good tech. He/she will probably discover the problem fairly quickly.
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  • thomasw88thomasw88 Frets: 2316
    Some of my guitars have graphite nuts and I can't notice any difference.
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  • axisusaxisus Frets: 28280
    thomasw88 said:
    Some of my guitars have graphite nuts and I can't notice any difference.
    Same here. Guitar set up properly and any reasonable nut should be OK.
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  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 26753
    What guitars are you referring. Different scale length and total string length can have a big effect on string feel.

    As for graphite, I have graphtechs on a couple of guitars from the days I was gigging regularly and desperate to avoid string breaks (Tele with 3-saddle bridge and Gibson CS336 with tunomatic). They probably change the sound a tiny bit but not significantly. 

    That said, I had some block-type graphtechs on my strat once and they really made it lose some zing.
    The Assumptions - UAE party band for all your rock & soul desires
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  • seany65seany65 Frets: 264
    Thanks to all for the replies and the info.

    I've only done bending on my 2 Sheratons (a Korean one.Yay. and a Chinese one. Boo.) and my present guitar is a Rally Neosound, which is an Ibanez AS73-a-like, which has the same scale length as the Sheratons, but it has better upper fret access and doesn't neck-dive.

    As I suspected before I made the original post, every opinion I've read anywhere on the interwebnet since conceiving the idea has been different eg. I've not read anywhere else of ICBM's view that graphite nuts can 'grab' the string. I was going to have the tech fiddle with the nut while looking at the 21st and 22nd frets on the high E string and bunging in some new PUPs, but to stop me going mental thinking about this stuff  I'll prolly just get a penny whistle.

    Now, what sort of amp/cable/pedals do I need for a penny whistle?
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  • seany65 said:
     My present guitar also goes out of tune after a few bends, which wasn't the case with my previous guitars. I know of the old 'rubbing a pencil on the string grooves' and the 'nut sauce' solutions, but I can't be arsed doing any of that. 


    I've had bone nuts installed on two guitars with six-a-side (i.e. non-straight string pull) headstocks - aside from a little bit of graphite in the wound string slots every string change, tuning stability is rock solid once they're stretched in - I don't need to use any fancy techniques to fit the strings.

    I had a synthetic 'bone' nut taken off and replaced with a real bone one because the wound strings were chewing through it. My understanding of graphite nuts is that they're essentially plastic - personally I'd be reluctant to use them because (rightly or wrongly) I'd be worried about durability. 
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  • seany65seany65 Frets: 264
    Thanks, noisepolluter. I did lok at Bone nuts (and Tusq nuts etc.) when I first considered getting a replacement nut, but I decided against them, as from what I understand they increase the treble (or the harmonics, depending where you look on the interwebnet) a little, and as I don't like too much treble.


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  • CorvusCorvus Frets: 2924
    tFB Trader

    Bone doesn't make that much difference, and only in open strings. tbh I seriously doubt whether anyone can really tell whether a bone or synthetic nut is installed in a guitar, by listening to it. I make bone nuts, it's fiddly and bone f*ing stinks when cut/filed etc, but they last and take a polish, which improves as they see some use. Tiny dab of graphite grease at string change time keeps 'em slippy.

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