Martial Arts

EricTheWeary

What's the one with the big stick they do on Walking Dead? 
That looks good to me. 

MrsTheWeary does tai chi but I'm not sure it's effective for self defence. 

PolarityMan

dbphoto said:

PolarityMan said:

and beleive me when yu ahve been either thrown or throw someone without touching them its a pretty WTF moment

What?

With no contact at all?

Yup, there's obviously a lot of emphasis put on the zen aspect of it but essentially its about getting your opponent to over commit and then leading that momentum to get the attacker to basically throw themselves. When I practised it I only ever had someone manage to do it to me a handful of times, and sort of pulled it off once (minimal contact rather than no contact). Its desirable because aikido is supposed to use no strength so being able to take this to the literal extreme is an indicator of good technique / form. 

My favourite one is the throw via wrist lock though, again the actual throw comes from the attacker but they basically can either throw themselves or break their wrist. 

snakemanStoo

EricTheWeary said:

What's the one with the big stick they do on Walking Dead? 
That looks good to me. 

MrsTheWeary does tai chi but I'm not sure it's effective for self defence. 

Bojutsu.

And Tai chi sped iup can be pretty violent

EricTheWeary

snakemanStoo said:

EricTheWeary said:

What's the one with the big stick they do on Walking Dead? 
That looks good to me. 

MrsTheWeary does tai chi but I'm not sure it's effective for self defence. 

Bojutsu.

And Tai chi sped iup can be pretty violent

It's definitely not sped up when MrsTheWeary does it.

I'll have a look at bojutsu, ta. 

snakemanStoo

It's done in japanese jujitsu clubs, and some aikido clubs.

My JJJ sensei has asked me to research hojojitsu.  Probably best not to search for that at work.  Or in front of impressionable people.

Jimbro66

6'5" and 18 stone? I'm wondering why you think you need self defence? Is it as a result of a particular experience?

Quite honestly, not many individuals are likely to pick on someone your size. It's more likely to be a group of young herberts who, like a pack of wolves, would relish taking a big guy down. In that case you either need to be a fast runner or skilled in fighting several at once. Taking down the mouthiest ring-leader often has the others backing off.

FarleyUK

Jimbro66 said:

6'5" and 18 stone? I'm wondering why you think you need self defence? Is it as a result of a particular experience?

Quite honestly, not many individuals are likely to pick on someone your size. It's more likely to be a group of young herberts who, like a pack of wolves, would relish taking a big guy down. In that case you either need to be a fast runner or skilled in fighting several at once. Taking down the mouthiest ring-leader often has the others backing off.

Believe me, you'd be surprised.

I spent my early years talking down people who relished the challenge to taking me on. As mentioned, I'm just not a violent guy - I'm too worried I'd seriously injure someone.

Just think some knowledge of martial arts would increase my confidence, help fitness and allow me to deal with these situations better.

zepp76

Jimbro66 said:

6'5" and 18 stone? I'm wondering why you think you need self defence? Is it as a result of a particular experience?

Quite honestly, not many individuals are likely to pick on someone your size. It's more likely to be a group of young herberts who, like a pack of wolves, would relish taking a big guy down. In that case you either need to be a fast runner or skilled in fighting several at once. Taking down the mouthiest ring-leader often has the others backing off.

At 6'4" and 21 stone I can assure you it has been quite the opposite especially in inner city pubs (I don't go anywhere near them anymore). I've had people start on me purely because I am a big bloke, it's not very nice! I would suggest boxing at the op's size, it's confidence building and sparring allows you to control your nerves in a violent situation.

Shrews

I gave up thinking about doing martial arts many years ago, when some bloke came into the pub boasting about it.

My mate got a bit fed up with him and in the end killed the boasting with:

"Excuse me mate, can you stand a kick in the balls?"

nick79

Boxing is a good call. 
Regarding size, a friend of mine is 6'7" and built like a tank, everytime we've been on a night out he gets little twats trying to pick a fight with him. He hasn't got an angry bone in him though and does the right thing and walks away. Its usually kids with a few drinks in them and out to prove a point, although i'm not sure exactly what they do if took them up on the offer. Not a lot i don't think! 

FarleyUK

Shrews said:

I gave up thinking about doing martial arts many years ago, when some bloke came into the pub boasting about it.

My mate got a bit fed up with him and in the end killed the boasting with:

"Excuse me mate, can you stand a kick in the balls?"

The number of arrogant braggarts in martial arts also puts me off as well.... Although these days it seems to be especially prevalent in MMA practicioners.

They're the vegans of martial arts.

Sassafras

Do guns count as martial arts?

MrBump

I really think it depends what you want out of it, whether you think it's gonna be a short term thing or something that will stay with you for years and enrich your life.  MMA/sport focused stuff doesn't have the philosophical depth of traditional arts in my opinion - that's not a criticism of them, it may be what you're after.  Also, I believe Krav Maga and other composite fighting systems tend not to describe themselves as martial arts because of the traditional baggage that can come with them.

If you think you may be in it for the long haul, get a taste of the different clubs and systems close to you, try some out - chat with the sensi/sifu/instructor and see if they make sense to you, and if you can see yourself training with them for years, if that's what you're after.

And I'd be wary of discussions around what the best martial art for defence is.  Most have good elements, but it'll primarily come down to how much you train, and how much effort you put in to understanding the art.

Best of luck with it.

Blaendulais

FarleyUK said:

Morning all,

I've been looking into starting martial arts again (last did it 18 years ago - Ju Jitsu at uni). Tried judo last night, and while it was good fun (and holy hell am I sore today!), it didn't seem to have much practical application if the worst came to the worst (ie. You aren't allowed wrist or leg locks etc), so it's more competition based.

I'm after a martial art that firstly suits my size (6ft 5, 18 stone) and secondly provides a genuine self defense aspect (i.e. Not just performing kata all the time with no sparring).

I'm naturally not a violent bloke, so something 'reactionary' would be good. BJJ seems too focused on tackling larger opponents, so that's out...

Anyone have any suggestions?

Are you Jack Reacher?

Nikc

I did Tae Kwon Do for many years - its sport not really self defence, but when I turned around faced with five twats that wanted to beat the shite out of me a snap kick to the balls of the ring leader worked a treat. I'm not a violent person at all but knowing I 'can' throw a decent punch or a half reasonble kick has been a god send on more than one occasion. I did also box as a kid because my dad wanted to toughten me up, I hated it. 

My personal all time favourite martial arts are taikiemywayoutofit and the linford as in christie

Matt_McG

- 90% of all fights end up on the ground

I've read that stat in a million places. I'm fairly sure it's straight out of some piece of Gracie marketing material. I grew up in a crap town in central Scotland, and have both been in* and seen a lot of fights, and I don't think I've _ever_ seen a fight that ended up with two guys on the ground together. Not once.

I'm sure that is true if the environment you are in is a nice gym with mats, or a training environment where the ground in question isn't concrete, and there aren't half a dozen guys waiting to wade in and boot you in the head.

I have been "on the ground" in a fight, but when I was on the ground, someone else was picking up a bin and dropping it on me.

None of that is to dismiss BJJ or wrestling, or judo. All are excellent, and there's a bunch of things they teach that I know I am personally crap at, and could stand to learn more of. 

But the "90% of fights end on the ground" thing is just marketing BS.


* translation: mostly taken a humiliating kicking. I am very definitely not "hard".

stimpsonslostson

I've done lots of martial arts (TKD, Kali, Krav, Aikido, Muay Thai, Capoiera and BJJ). I've dabbled in MMA too, but I'm getting old & focus on BJJ now. Though I like the idea of trying judo to improve my standing grappling. 

MMA is a mix of styles as the name suggests- I've NEVER been to a club that didn't insist new members learn the basics of striking, wrestling & grappling before being allowed to do MMA. 
Its simply a safety issue- I' hate to train with ANYONE (let alone someone as big as you) who didn't know how to train safely & control themselves under pressure. Walk before you can run. 

BJJ isn't about tackling larger opponents, it's about application of technique to overcome strength.
 Even someone big won't "win" until their technique gets to the point where that size can be used appropriately. I'm 74kg & LOVE rolling with big guys- their size means I HAVE to use good skill at all times.
My biggest criticism of BJJ is the heavy (blinkered?) focus on ground work- an awful idea in a bar, street or ANYWHERE where your opponent might have mates to help them- running away is the right choice! 

Regarding judo as self defense- I disagree strongly with your appraisal. I believe it's probably one of the best self defense arts. Big movements done on a fully resistant standing opponent- as with any art, if you can make a technique stick in randori with a trained partner then someone untrained won't stop it. 
You're more likely to find bigger partners at Judo too- rugby players often cross train it in the off season. 

Egos are a funny thing, I find egos are reflective of the club & coaches in general- most martial artists are humble & friendly having spent YEARS being "beaten up" teaches you not to be cocky. If someone at a class has an attitude I'd suggest that the coach should be paying more attention & dealing with it appropriately. I've seen people asked to leave for not showing proper respect to others. 

By the way, wrist/leg locks are great in theory, but I never used or even saw them when I worked doors/gig security.
Wrist locks are fiddly & slippery when sweaty or adrenaline starts flowing. I prefer the arm up the back tactic. 
Leg locks usually need you to be on the floor (bad in an uncontrolled situation) and there's the fact that they're ATTACKS designed with the potential to REALLY hurt/cripple someone. I don't know how such an advanced technique could be justified as self defense.

I'd be interested to hear where you end up, there's a wee thread that those of us who do Martial Arts chat about training in somewhere, it'd be good to see you there too. 

Matt_McG

My comment whenever friends ask me about these things is not to dismiss sports martial arts.

Muay Thai, various forms of kick boxing, ordinary Western boxing, judo.

And I'd include MMA and BJJ in that.

All of those kinds of arts will get you sparring regularly, and safely, early. And you'll be sparring people who are trying to beat you. If you are in a good club, those people will be your friends, and the competitive side of it will be good natured, but still ... no-one is flopping about when you grab their wrist. They'll punch you in the face, or take you down, or whatever.

Regularly testing your abilities against genuinely resisting opponents is key. Plus, sparring is fun, and a good workout.

snakemanStoo

stimpsonslostson said:

I've done lots of martial arts (TKD, Kali, Krav, Aikido, Muay Thai, Capoiera and BJJ). I've dabbled in MMA too, but I'm getting old & focus on BJJ now. Though I like the idea of trying judo to improve my standing grappling. 

Judo can be very hard on the body.  I'm 41 and hurt from head to toe after even light classes.  You probably know this, but I thought best to point it out anyway.

beed84

MrBump said:

I really think it depends what you want out of it, whether you think it's gonna be a short term thing or something that will stay with you for years and enrich your life.  MMA/sport focused stuff doesn't have the philosophical depth of traditional arts in my opinion - that's not a criticism of them, it may be what you're after.  Also, I believe Krav Maga and other composite fighting systems tend not to describe themselves as martial arts because of the traditional baggage that can come with them.

If you think you may be in it for the long haul, get a taste of the different clubs and systems close to you, try some out - chat with the sensi/sifu/instructor and see if they make sense to you, and if you can see yourself training with them for years, if that's what you're after.

And I'd be wary of discussions around what the best martial art for defence is.  Most have good elements, but it'll primarily come down to how much you train, and how much effort you put in to understanding the art.

Best of luck with it.

Wis'd awarded. 

From personal experience, although I set out to train with self-defence in mind doing a martial art has become much more than that, and – to me at least – it is more about self-mastery, humility, determination, balance, well-being and so on.

As @MrBump said, it's all about milage and what you do to understand the art and why you're doing what it is you've chosen to do. And as other as have said, the best form of self-defence is to get away from the situation or not be in it at all. If I see a group of yobs, chavs, or dubious looking individuals coming my way, I will cross the street. If there's something kicking off in a pub or wherever, I will leave. The last thing I want is to be involved in any sort of trouble. But if push really came to shove, I've got something to fall back on.

Either way, doing a martial art is a personal journey and you get out of it what you put in. Just IMHO self-defence is surface level of any available style.