Martial Arts

FarleyUK

snakemanStoo said:

stimpsonslostson said:

I've done lots of martial arts (TKD, Kali, Krav, Aikido, Muay Thai, Capoiera and BJJ). I've dabbled in MMA too, but I'm getting old & focus on BJJ now. Though I like the idea of trying judo to improve my standing grappling. 

Judo can be very hard on the body.  I'm 41 and hurt from head to toe after even light classes.  You probably know this, but I thought best to point it out anyway.

Tell me about it, I'm REALLY stiff and sore today!

Thanks so much for the input all - I will try and get to Taijitsu on Wednesday and see how that feels. It's interesting getting your input and thoughts on it all, as I've never actually been in a fight....!

stimpsonslostson

snakemanStoo said:

stimpsonslostson said:

I've done lots of martial arts (TKD, Kali, Krav, Aikido, Muay Thai, Capoiera and BJJ). I've dabbled in MMA too, but I'm getting old & focus on BJJ now. Though I like the idea of trying judo to improve my standing grappling. 

Judo can be very hard on the body.  I'm 41 and hurt from head to toe after even light classes.  You probably know this, but I thought best to point it out anyway.

Yup. That's literally the ONLY reason I've not taken the plunge! I already have to do yoga daily. 
My daughter does judo & her coach keeps trying to get me to go to an adults class! It's a great, well run club with lots of Olympic/Commonwealth/International level folk, so I know the coaching is top notch...
It's probably only a matter of time. 

It'll be strange being out of my comfort zone & a white belt once more! 

FarleyUK

stimpsonslostson said:

snakemanStoo said:

stimpsonslostson said:

I've done lots of martial arts (TKD, Kali, Krav, Aikido, Muay Thai, Capoiera and BJJ). I've dabbled in MMA too, but I'm getting old & focus on BJJ now. Though I like the idea of trying judo to improve my standing grappling. 

Judo can be very hard on the body.  I'm 41 and hurt from head to toe after even light classes.  You probably know this, but I thought best to point it out anyway.

Yup. That's literally the ONLY reason I've not taken the plunge! I already have to do yoga daily. 
My daughter does judo & her coach keeps trying to get me to go to an adults class! It's a great, well run club with lots of Olympic/Commonwealth/International level folk, so I know the coaching is top notch...
It's probably only a matter of time. 

It'll be strange being out of my comfort zone & a white belt once more! 

You're not around Wycombe are you...?

DrCornelius

Id be worried to throw a punch in anger if I was 18 stone and 6 ft 5 tbh. With some coaching and if you can get your weight behind it you'd do some serious damage. I appreciate that you aren't looking to start any fights just defend yourself but I'd be looking more at MMA stuff where you'd be able to disable people without risking doing permanent damage.

prowla

There is no one ring to rule them all.

Me, I've been doing Karate for nearly 20 years now and it is excellent.

Aikido and Judo are very good complementary systems.

The problem with Karate is that it is very fragmented and there are good and bad ones and they range from traditional to offshoots.

The style I do has a good balance between the art and the martial...

PolarityMan

Frankus would have had good input to this topic

stimpsonslostson

FarleyUK said:

stimpsonslostson said:

snakemanStoo said:

stimpsonslostson said:

I've done lots of martial arts (TKD, Kali, Krav, Aikido, Muay Thai, Capoiera and BJJ). I've dabbled in MMA too, but I'm getting old & focus on BJJ now. Though I like the idea of trying judo to improve my standing grappling. 

Judo can be very hard on the body.  I'm 41 and hurt from head to toe after even light classes.  You probably know this, but I thought best to point it out anyway.

Yup. That's literally the ONLY reason I've not taken the plunge! I already have to do yoga daily. 
My daughter does judo & her coach keeps trying to get me to go to an adults class! It's a great, well run club with lots of Olympic/Commonwealth/International level folk, so I know the coaching is top notch...
It's probably only a matter of time. 

It'll be strange being out of my comfort zone & a white belt once more! 

You're not around Wycombe are you...?

Nope, I'm in Edinburgh.
I can't recommend Edinburgh Judo at St Margarets House highly enough. 

FarleyUK

stimpsonslostson said:

FarleyUK said:

stimpsonslostson said:

snakemanStoo said:

stimpsonslostson said:

I've done lots of martial arts (TKD, Kali, Krav, Aikido, Muay Thai, Capoiera and BJJ). I've dabbled in MMA too, but I'm getting old & focus on BJJ now. Though I like the idea of trying judo to improve my standing grappling. 

Judo can be very hard on the body.  I'm 41 and hurt from head to toe after even light classes.  You probably know this, but I thought best to point it out anyway.

Yup. That's literally the ONLY reason I've not taken the plunge! I already have to do yoga daily. 
My daughter does judo & her coach keeps trying to get me to go to an adults class! It's a great, well run club with lots of Olympic/Commonwealth/International level folk, so I know the coaching is top notch...
It's probably only a matter of time. 

It'll be strange being out of my comfort zone & a white belt once more! 

You're not around Wycombe are you...?

Nope, I'm in Edinburgh.
I can't recommend Edinburgh Judo at St Margarets House highly enough. 

I was up there last week..!

Just wondered as the Wycombe judo center is supposed to be one of the top centers in the UK.

grungebob

I may be biased but I’d say find a good jiu jitsu club one that does a good mix of Gi and no Gi. 
Ours focusses on sport jiu jitsu and combat based. 
We do a lot of takedowns (judo), how to control If taken down (damage control) and more importantly how to get up from under someone and run. 
The submission aspect of it is fun but that’s more for sport jiu jitsu. 

Jimbro66

I've just been reading through all your posts in this thread @FarleyUK and the picture I've built from it is:

You are big guy but you would still like to be able to defend yourself if picked on. However, because you've never been in a fight you are concerned that your size and weight might injure your assailant if you retaliated. I have the feeling you'd prefer to restrain and subdue them rather than strike them. Thus the thought that judo might be a good option. Tell me if I'm wrong. You'd also like the physical and mental benefits of training in a martial art.

In terms of self-defence it's necessary to consider where you might be assaulted and what your assailant might do. For example, if it's in a crowded bar or club you might be hit with a head butt, short punch or knee strike, all of which happen very quickly and with little warning. So consider how you would defend yourself. Will there be more than one assailant? How would you, for example, use judo in that situation?

The best option is to avoid the likelihood of being assaulted altogether by knowing where it could happen. If that's not possible you need firstly an acute awareness of what is likely to happen and then a set of skills that can be used instantly and instinctively. That is only acquired by years of hard training in more than one martial art. There is no shortcut. Those self-defence courses that are often advertised are totally ineffective in real life situations.

You also have to be prepared to hurt your assailant to disable him if restraining is not possible. A lot of non-violent people do not have it in them to do that.

I trained in karate for twelve years and taught it for seven but during that time I also trained in judo, ju-jitsu, kempo, taekwondo and boxing. They are all complementary fighting arts. I'd say try several martial arts and see what you like and, more importantly, what suits you. And maybe join a running club

beed84

Jimbro66 said:

I've just been reading through all your posts in this thread @FarleyUK and the picture I've built from it is:

You are big guy but you would still like to be able to defend yourself if picked on. However, because you've never been in a fight you are concerned that your size and weight might injure your assailant if you retaliated. I have the feeling you'd prefer to restrain and subdue them rather than strike them. Thus the thought that judo might be a good option. Tell me if I'm wrong. You'd also like the physical and mental benefits of training in a martial art.

In terms of self-defence it's necessary to consider where you might be assaulted and what your assailant might do. For example, if it's in a crowded bar or club you might be hit with a head butt, short punch or knee strike, all of which happen very quickly and with little warning. So consider how you would defend yourself. Will there be more than one assailant? How would you, for example, use judo in that situation?

The best option is to avoid the likelihood of being assaulted altogether by knowing where it could happen. If that's not possible you need firstly an acute awareness of what is likely to happen and then a set of skills that can be used instantly and instinctively. That is only acquired by years of hard training in more than one martial art. There is no shortcut. Those self-defence courses that are often advertised are totally ineffective in real life situations.

You also have to be prepared to hurt your assailant to disable him if restraining is not possible. A lot of non-violent people do not have it in them to do that.

I trained in karate for twelve years and taught it for seven but during that time I also trained in judo, ju-jitsu, kempo, taekwondo and boxing. They are all complementary fighting arts. I'd say try several martial arts and see what you like and, more importantly, what suits you. And maybe join a running club

Have a wis.

I also think that what I've highlighted is a really good point of yours. In actual fact, I've considered switching from Wing Chun to Tai Chi because of this on the basis that I wouldn't really want to perform the majority of drills/techniques on anyone. That's not to say they're not good, they're just incredibly brutal. But like I said earlier: if push really came to shove, then I guess having to take someones throat out might be necessary...

FarleyUK

Very insightful posts guys, thanks!

I think maybe the crux of me being concerned about hurting someone badly is because I've never been in a fight - hence looking for a martial art that has sparring.

Incidentally, I'm trying a local Jiu Jitsu class tomorrow for two hours, so will be good to compare that to the judo I tried.

FarleyUK

Quick update for anyone curious -

- Done two judo classes now, and while I enjoy it, the logic doesn't make sense to me so far; I'm used to not relying on my strength. Been told in doing amazingly well for two lessons though...
- Also, screwed my knee up last night at class..!
- Taijitsu was a non starter; the senior class was just a load of brown belt 16 year olds. Felt very weird and not confident in the way it was taught 
- Original Jiu Jitsu lesson was cancelled, going again on Monday (assuming knee is better!)

PVO_Dave

I took judo a few years back when a friend of mine wanted to start his own class so roped all his mates in, sadly with the amount of people dropping out, it only lasted long enough to achieve one belt (so I'm about as far from an expert as you can get).

What I can say from a self defence point of view, when I was sparring (taking it in turns to try and get a throw in) with one of the women in the class who was 5ft nothing, she landed a decent throw on me (I tried to break fall - tried..) it took me a good while to get up after, that was on a nice crash mat, don't think I'd be getting up any time soon from the pavement or the road. I'm 6ft3 and weighed somewhere between 14-15st at the time, still quite sore thinking about it  

I'm hoping when my daughter is a bit older I can get her to take up a class, great for confidence even if you never want to use it. 

Good luck with whatever one you stick with  

munckee

FarleyUK said:

Quick update for anyone curious -

- Done two judo classes now, and while I enjoy it, the logic doesn't make sense to me so far; I'm used to not relying on my strength. Been told in doing amazingly well for two lessons though...
- Also, screwed my knee up last night at class..!
- Taijitsu was a non starter; the senior class was just a load of brown belt 16 year olds. Felt very weird and not confident in the way it was taught 
- Original Jiu Jitsu lesson was cancelled, going again on Monday (assuming knee is better!)

How did ju jitsu go?  I studied that for a few years, my brother is a 2nd dan instructor.  I think its a very good all round martial art, lots of focus on deflecting or avoiding the first punch which is one of the most useful things.

The other added benefit is while running this afternoon I fully tripped over something on the ground in a nature reserve and without having trained for 10 years I managed a break fall roll and carried on running without breaking my stride.  Even got polite applause from two old ladies walking their dogs : )

Mark1960

At 6'- 5" and 18 stone, you should be playing rugby, as much controlled aggression as you want, hot bath, good meal, few beers and a good laugh. What's not to like!

peteri

I'm not the biggest guy, but not the smallest either - bit over 6'2" and fighting weight 16.5stone ish.

I've done about 20 years Karate (3rd dan) and then trained as a Krav Maga instructor, I've also done a bit of judo and kick boxing over the years. Did door work when I was young and daft.

There's lots of points I'd agree with on here:

1. Size doesn't matter once you move past intimidating, that can be very, very effective in a casual conflict, but also does attract the 'chip on the shoulder drunk'

2. Judo is a great defence, you don't need to go to ground - throw someone who doesn't know it's coming and how to fall and they're likely out of the fight, the problem is you have to get close to someone and if they've got a weapon that's not a good idea

3. At the end of the day, martial arts are just a series of techniques, a nutter will always beat a well trained nice guy

4. As others have said, much of it depends on your instructor and I'm afraid there are a lot of bad ones around. Either teaching something they've not practically used themselves, or focussing more on the income stream than running a strict, strenuous class.

For me, I'd recommend thai boxing, Krav Maga, Judo or jujitsu - all are great with practical application, but my first port of call would be local MMA classes, find a good class and it should cover boxing, kicking and ground work - both my daughters did a years training before Uni and it was a great introduction.

I gave up Karate and switched to KM once someone tried to pull a knife on me, key point people forget is the adrenaline training and fear element, that's what KM gave me - but again you have to find the right class and instructor, fashion comes into play with a lot of things - martial arts being no exception

Recently I've started paying for one on one boxing training, it's not cheap - but really, really good - amazing cardio and has changed a few habits I've developed over the years, often just finding someone to give you a fresh perspective is all you need.

Hope this helps

Jimbro66

Mark1960 said:

At 6'- 5" and 18 stone, you should be playing rugby, as much controlled aggression as you want, hot bath, good meal, few beers and a good laugh. What's not to like!

How about dislocated shoulders and sharing a bath with a bunch of guys? 

FarleyUK

Ha, I used to play rugby at school and uni.... but got sick of all the alpha-male BS that comes with it. "Drink a pint of p*ss or you're a p*ssy!" Er, yeah, whatever mate.

Anyway - been to Judo three times now (also joined the British Judo Association), and been to Ju Jitsu as well. Things I've discovered so far:

1. I'm really not built for throws - I find them very, very tough to do due to the height...

2. ....however, sweeps and leg work seem to come much easier

3. Judo is VERY knackering - really had no idea how exhausting it would be. Superb workout!

4. Personally, I think I prefer Ju Jitsu, as it seems to come more naturally to me (especially the locks and holds)

5. It's great to do them both in tandem, as obviously a lot of the judo stuff is in JJ (i.e. O-Goshi, Tai-Toshi etc.)

The instructors for both also seem very good, which is great - although there are a couple of utter twats in Judo, but on the whole it's a great crowd. The JJ class is on an RAF base, so it's mainly service personnel but that's also pretty insightful...!

snakemanStoo

There's around 60 or so recognised throws in judo, so you'll find a few that work for you.

I'm taller and heavier than most of the people I train with and I can't make a lot of throws work, but the ones I like I can make work pretty much all the time.

Stick at it and you'll find your throws/hold downs/ submissions.