...but baby it's cold outside !

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  • Emp_Fab said:
    underdog said:
    This is based on a misreading of what the song is about. To modern ears it can be interpreted as "rapey", but it's quite the opposite. At the time it was written folks would have gotten the gist - it's about a women who has gone to her lover's place and wants to stay the night - despite the social "niceties" of the time.

    Have a read of this:

    http://persephonemagazine.com/2010/12/listening-while-feminist-in-defense-of-baby-its-cold-outside/ ;

    Thank god some people have sense, that's always what the song was about, a bit flirty and cheeky.

     Fuck I wish people would stop being outraged for the sake of it.
    Interesting article.  It may have been perfectly fine with the listeners of the day, interpreting the lyrics in line with the social norms of the time.  But, as Grumpyrocker says, "To modern ears it can be interpreted as "rapey"" and we aren't listening to it in the era it was written are we ?  We are listening to it 'with modern ears'.  Therefore - it can be interpreted as 'rapey'.
    This is the problem. It doesn't matter what the intent is, or even whether it's obvious to 99% of the audience what the intent is - if somebody thinks/decides it's "rapey", then that's what it is and nobody is allowed to like it.

    This is not a great state of affairs. It's getting dangerously close to the point where we're not even allowed to talk about this sort of thing. Can you imagine what sort of reaction a song which is actually social commentary about rape would get?

    Fortunately, that song's on my band's EP which will probably never be heard by anyone, as opposed to the album we're releasing soon... ;)
    <space for hire>
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 24208
    underdog said:
    Emp_Fab said:
    "Hey what's in this drink?"

    Again, it's not the mouth it comes out of its the mind it goes in to etc

    I'm starting to think you've never flirted with a woman before 
    What ??  I suppose that depends on your definition of 'flirting'.  You appear to be equating flirting with spiking her drink ! (be that strong liquor, more alcohol than she was expecting or a drug).

    In the song, the woman sings "Hey what's in this drink?".  This is clearly interpreted, both then and now, as an expression of surprise at the strength of the drink or the effect it's having on her.  Is that your idea of 'flirting' ??  :o
    Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
    Also chips are "Plant-based" no matter how you cook them.
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  • I think the permanently offended should fuck off and get a life.
    Only a Fool Would Say That.
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  • stickersticker Frets: 869
    No she doesn’t the line is “say , what’s in this drink?”

    She also later sings “say , lend me a coat “ 

    If you watch pretty much any Oliver Hardy /Grouch Marx scene the dialogue starts with “Say....” it was the way Americans spoke in the 30’s and 40’s . 




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  • ShrewsShrews Frets: 2958
    Millions of people have enjoyed this song over the years. It's been sung by old grannies, kids school concerts and even in church choirs. It even appeared in the Children's film Elf!




    I doubt that any rapist ever interviewed has sited 'Baby It's Cold Outside' as an influence on their sick actions.

    So, millions love it, no harm has ever been done by it and yet a few people want to ban it.


    Let's ban Elf as well!

    And Christmas, which is surely complicit in all this.
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  • What about a Tom Jones? I am Welsh and we all worship the dude....BUT... it does not take much work to find some unfavourable allegations..if there are injunctions please feel free to delete this post
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  • If every time an establishment gets a complaint about a Song, Book, Film and they are too ready to Kowtow to the complainant, then, there will not be any Art left.

    That's what it all is, it's Art, and I am certain that a large proportion of all Art ever produced, in whatever format, will have something within that "offends" someone, although more prevalent now than in the recent past.

    If you're getting your knickers in a twist over this @Emp_Fab then don't skimp, go through all your Films, Books and Albums and burn all the ones with some controversial content. You'll have next to Fuck All left.

    #thinendofthewedge

    .
    Only a Fool Would Say That.
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  • underdogunderdog Frets: 8334
    edited December 2018
    Emp_Fab said:
    underdog said:
    Emp_Fab said:
    "Hey what's in this drink?"

    Again, it's not the mouth it comes out of its the mind it goes in to etc

    I'm starting to think you've never flirted with a woman before 
    What ??  I suppose that depends on your definition of 'flirting'.  You appear to be equating flirting with spiking her drink ! (be that strong liquor, more alcohol than she was expecting or a drug).

    In the song, the woman sings "Hey what's in this drink?".  This is clearly interpreted, both then and now, as an expression of surprise at the strength of the drink or the effect it's having on her.  Is that your idea of 'flirting' ??  o

    Because the whole fricking song is a back and forth between a man and woman, essentially flirting, between 2 adults. It's obvious to most, but the most easily offended, that the woman wants to stay, she has no intention of leaving, it's purely a flirtacious game, fore play.

    It's all "but what would the neighbors say" naughty.

    You never had a woman joke "god this is strong, trying to get me drunk are you" 

    As I said I think the fact you take that line to suggest he's going to get her legless and rape her says more about you than it does the writer or performers of the song.
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  • ShrewsShrews Frets: 2958
    Christmas songs that should be banned

    Last Christmas - "Last Christmas I gave you my heart but the very next day you gave it away" - This clearly implies she's a slag and therefore offensive to women all over the world.

    Santa Baby - the whole song gives a negative impression of women by suggesting they're taking advantage of elderly mythical beings

    We Wish You a Merry Christmas - encourages people towards alcoholism

    Baby It's Cold Outside - encourages the male sex to rape the female sex

    White Christmas - Racist. People can dream about Black Christmases too.

    12 Days of Christmas - Stereotypes. Milking is not only done by female milkmaids

    Ding Dong Merrily On High - contains the word "Dong"

    Amongst ridiculous reasoning for well-loved Christmas songs, the ridiculous reasoning for Baby It's Cold Outside doesn't really stand out.

    All Christmas songs should be banned, they're all offensive!







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  • schrodinger1612schrodinger1612 Frets: 390
    edited December 2018
    The world is indeed going mad. Hell if I had to guess, I’d say there’s a conspiracy to demasculate the general population through a propagation of feminist ideology in hopes of implementing cultural Marxism, where the state takes the place of the nuclear family, particularly the traditional masculine, paternal influence. “Please leave a message after the tone...BEEP”
    Feedback Thread: https://goo.gl/bquaSD
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    As long as they replace it with GnR’s ‘My Michelle’.
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 24208
    Well, it appears we’ll just have to agree to disagree!  I actually like the song, particularly the Tom Jones & Cerys Matthews version (and that’s nothing to do with them being Welsh).  However, the lyrics are, quite literally, a series of statements from the woman expressing her desire to leave.  If we believe that they aren’t earnest and that her real desire is the exact opposite then we’re into dangerous “when does no really mean no?” territory.

    If, instead of being a song, this was a transcript being read out in court and you”re in the dock on a rape charge, how many of you really think the jury are going to think “well, I know she said no, time and time again, but you could tell she didn’t mean it.” ??  If that’s what you’re relying on - (Al Pacino voice) - Brother, you are gonna go down=)
    Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
    Also chips are "Plant-based" no matter how you cook them.
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  • Emp_Fab said:
    Well, it appears we’ll just have to agree to disagree!  I actually like the song, particularly the Tom Jones & Cerys Matthews version (and that’s nothing to do with them being Welsh).  However, the lyrics are, quite literally, a series of statements from the woman expressing her desire to leave.  If we believe that they aren’t earnest and that her real desire is the exact opposite then we’re into dangerous “when does no really mean no?” territory.
    Except that wasn't the writer's intent when it was penned. That's your interpretation of it, in contradiction to the actual story that's being told. That matters a lot.

    Do you advocate banning art based on every possible misinterpretation of the artist's intent?
    <space for hire>
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 24208
    Whoa..  I’m not advocating banning anything!  Just because I’m saying I can see where they’re coming from doesn’t mean I want anything banned.

    Back to your point; Absolutely the writer’s intent matters.  However, the perceived intent from a modern-day perspective matters far, far more.  As I said earlier, 95% of people who hear it are not going to go off and research the cultural and social norms of the era it was written in are they?  Of course not!  They’ve going to hear it through the filter of modern day norms - via which, as others have said, it can be seen as ‘rapey’.

    You can’t assume people will know it isn’t a new song either, so why would people even think to consider the societal norms of the 1940s when hearing it?
    Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
    Also chips are "Plant-based" no matter how you cook them.
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  • Emp_Fab said:

    Back to your point; Absolutely the writer’s intent matters.  However, the perceived intent from a modern-day perspective matters far, far more.
    This, I think, is the main difference of opinion. I don't believe that any re-interpretation matters at all. As with all things, if somebody's wrong - as said re-interpretation really is - they should be educated, not pandered to. It goes back to the same old thing...facts matter more than opinions.
    <space for hire>
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  • SassafrasSassafras Frets: 30273
    If you want misinterpretation read the Bible - or any religious text, come to that. It's all in the eye of the beholder, it's not a rape manual or a command to knock women out before raping them.
    There's a long history of the media sanitising lyrics and even banning them because they've put the most sinister interpretation on them.
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  • Jimbro66Jimbro66 Frets: 2418
    Emp you bring a certain amount of entertainment to this forum but really you need to get out a lot more and stop being so damn petty-minded. There are far more important things than re-analysing ancient songs.
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  • KilgoreKilgore Frets: 8599
    I suppose it could sound a bit creepy to a modern listener but we shouldn't pander to their misinterpretations.

    My missus walked down the aisle to Every Breath You Take, now that's a proper love song.
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  • Need to file this next to my extended remix of Blurred Lines and Cliff Richard albums. 
    enough said get a life
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 24601
    Emp_Fab said:

    I've never really liked where the lyrics go in that song - let's face it, it's all about a randy bloke trying to get his date into the sack - even if that means spiking her drink !  For me, it's got that same kind of 'rapey' vibe that 'Blurred lines' has.

    What do you think about it ?
    Even by your standards that's the biggest loads of bollocks ever written. Spiking her drink .... please explain.
    Different age - people would have a drink for Dutch courage. But please go ahead with your cultural revisionism - perhaps you should check your CD collection as by your standards I can think of a whole range of songs which should be banned.

    Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
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