Are Used Gear Prices Going Up? - Another Reverb article

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guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4760

Are Used Gear Prices Going Up?

https://reverb.com/uk/news/are-used-gear-prices-going-up

a recent article on Reverb - Reverb is now an influential market place - Data for this article is based on actual sales via Reverb and not asking prices 

Interesting to note that prices changes on PRS are flat over the last few years - Then look at the increase in Vintage Fender and Vintage Gibson prices changes with both around 20% increase
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  • impmannimpmann Frets: 7499
    And who benefits from people asking higher prices? Reverb.

    This is classic marketing. If you tell
    people the prices are going up, they *will* go up.

    Fact is prices are STATIC. In fact the prices asked are rarely being met. Look at the classifieds on here and on Faceache. The same guitarshave been for sale for a *long* time.


    Never Ever Bloody Anything Ever.

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  • teradaterada Frets: 1546
    I thought R8 prices were going up ;)
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  • dindudedindude Frets: 5637
    impmann said:
    And who benefits from people asking higher prices? Reverb.

    This is classic marketing. If you tell
    people the prices are going up, they *will* go up.

    Fact is prices are STATIC. In fact the prices asked are rarely being met. Look at the classifieds on here and on Faceache. The same guitarshave been for sale for a *long* time.


    What's a guitar-shave - is that a re-fin?
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4760
    impmann said:
    And who benefits from people asking higher prices? Reverb.

    This is classic marketing. If you tell
    people the prices are going up, they *will* go up.

    Fact is prices are STATIC. In fact the prices asked are rarely being met. Look at the classifieds on here and on Faceache. The same guitarshave been for sale for a *long* time.


    I might tend to agree with you more on this if the article was based on asking prices on Reverb, but it is based on actual sales achieved, across the last few years and across a wide range of products

    I can see both sides of the discussion - Yes a glut of good qualities used products for sale - the economy - the balance of need v want of acquiring another guitar - Recent vast increase of new guitar prices on all major brands, certainly over the last 5 years - All factors for +/- changes to the used market

    I was recently questioning the asking prices of Fender Fullerton USA reissues, from the early 80's,  with Reverb, amongst others, including an FB member and I'm amazed at the asking prices - Often well over 2K and I thought this was total BS and no way could they sell at such prices - They showed me recent actual data, of a number of sales that supported such prices - I still find it hard to believe that such a guitar can still command those prices - As such I question my own logic and knowledge - Yet I would not dare stock such a guitar at such a price

    One advantage Reverb has over FB private sales is the instant on-line payment option of paypal/card, coupled with a returns option, coupled with far larger 'viewing figures'
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  • NelsonPNelsonP Frets: 600
    The amps data is interesting. Vintage Fenders are going up, everything else is dropping.

    This suggests there may be something in the hyphothesis that people no longer want big amps, with lower stage volume, modellers etc.
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4760
    NelsonP said:
    The amps data is interesting. Vintage Fenders are going up, everything else is dropping.

    This suggests there may be something in the hyphothesis that people no longer want big amps, with lower stage volume, modellers etc.
    Yes and add to that the cost of refurbishing a valve amp as required - A new set of valves can be more than some amps are worth - Then any pat testing that might be required - Great if you can do it yourself, but via tech/dealer then not cheap

    Cost of offering a warranty if sold via a dealer

    How much can you get for a 10/20 year old tranny Peavey or Marshall amp - then look at the cost of a Boss Katana or similar

    Such issues make used amps cheap - Like buying any old car that only does 20 to the gallon
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 3948
    According to this:


    Prices have actually gone down in real terms on a lot of stuff.

    UK Inflation 2015 to 2018 means that £1.00 in 2015 is now equivalent to £1.07.

    In that time, Reverb have contemporary Fenders up 5.06% so near enough 2% less than they should have gone up just to keep pace with inflation.

    Contemporary Gibsons have done less well at 4.68%.

    Ibanez and PRS are actually cheaper in both absolute and real terms.  In real terms, they are significantly cheaper.

    What we don't know is how they calculate their figures.  E.g. there are far more S2 PRS around now than there would have been in 2015.  That would bring down average prices if they just lump all US PRS together.  I would expect them to be more sophisticated than that, but we can't be certain.

    The "vintage" stuff seems to be climbing, but when 79 Strats seem to be the biggest seller among "vintage" Strats (see the other thread) then I'd take those figures with a pinch of salt as well.
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4760
    edited December 4
    NelsonP said:
    The amps data is interesting. Vintage Fenders are going up, everything else is dropping.

    This suggests there may be something in the hyphothesis that people no longer want big amps, with lower stage volume, modellers etc.
    also add the cost and aggro of shipping - a fair chunk of shopping is now on-line - So not easy to check out first either to see any unwanted issues
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  • impmannimpmann Frets: 7499
    Sorry, the cynical in me doesn’t trust this data....

    And Reverb isn’t the sales place of choice for a lot of musos, myself included, for a lot of reasons - despite their marketing. I’d be more interested in ebay’s data, personally.... despite what we all think of them, they are the market leader.

    In a world where we are all seeing guitars sat for sale for upwards of six months at a time, and the only time they sell is when the price is dropped.... who do we believe? 
    Ive had first had with this - stuff sells if it’s below ‘market’ price but if you want to hold out for top dollar, it’s just not selling. 
    The market is over crowded - this leads to price drops (basic economics). Anyone claiming otherwise is trying to massage the market - don’t believe the hype, follow the money etc etc).

    Ymmv, always read the label, does not include batteries etc...
    Never Ever Bloody Anything Ever.

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  • SassafrasSassafras Frets: 12733
    Used gear prices going up! 
    Buy NOW, before Christmas!
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  • sweepysweepy Frets: 1937
    I think the used market is as dead as a Dodo these days, people generally asking stupidly high prices and buyers low balling at every opportunity. The crazy blow out deals allied with 0% interest continue to depress the higher end s/h market and with inflation on the up I can see it getting worse tbh
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  • Strat54Strat54 Frets: 991
    Despite what's going on in the market, like at any time the GOOD stuff still sells and for good money. By that I mean the slightly rarer spec or more desirable instruments in short supply. If you look through the SOLD prices on ebay you can see this. Someone paid £12999 recently for a Mayer PRS in Hemp Green and £5495 for a Private Stock CU24 yet at the other end NF3's and regaular sunburst Custom 24's are selling cheaply. The NF3 was £700 and the Custom 24's £1400 which are bargains really.. Collectors always want something a bit different and I know plenty of these kind of buyers whose wallets are always ready. I'm sure Mark H must get guitars in that he knows will sell almost immediately, its just finding those particular 'pieces'
    I think that the used prices of all Fender guitars have risen slightly which you'd expect with the new prices rapidly increasing, there's some fairly decent prices achieved for sold Custom Shop guitars on ebay.The stuff you see hanging around is usually vastly over priced and for sale by private sellers with no understanding of the market.
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 3948
    Strat54 said:

    I think that the used prices of all Fender guitars have risen slightly which you'd expect with the new prices rapidly increasing, there's some fairly decent prices achieved for sold Custom Shop guitars on ebay.The stuff you see hanging around is usually vastly over priced and for sale by private sellers with no understanding of the market.

    Not in real terms if you look at the table in the linked article.  They have risen 5% over three years, while inflation is running at 7% over the same time period.  (That's excluding the "vintage" stuff, which does seem to have risen).

    Other brands aren't doing as well as Fender on second hand prices.

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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4760
    edited December 5
    crunchman said:
    Strat54 said:

    I think that the used prices of all Fender guitars have risen slightly which you'd expect with the new prices rapidly increasing, there's some fairly decent prices achieved for sold Custom Shop guitars on ebay.The stuff you see hanging around is usually vastly over priced and for sale by private sellers with no understanding of the market.

    Not in real terms if you look at the table in the linked article.  They have risen 5% over three years, while inflation is running at 7% over the same time period.  (That's excluding the "vintage" stuff, which does seem to have risen).

    Other brands aren't doing as well as Fender on second hand prices.

    I think if you are trying to buy most guitars as an investment only, then the above logic applies - But if you are buying them to earn a living, a part time wage, or to have fun, then is it even worth considering

    How many other past times allow you to 'purchase' a product/service, then weeks, months, or years later, sell it and get some funds back  - Granted there are some, but many high street products have close to zero collateral in them, when you wish to dispose of them at a later date 
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4760
    Strat54 said:
    Despite what's going on in the market, like at any time the GOOD stuff still sells and for good money. By that I mean the slightly rarer spec or more desirable instruments in short supply. If you look through the SOLD prices on ebay you can see this. Someone paid £12999 recently for a Mayer PRS in Hemp Green and £5495 for a Private Stock CU24 yet at the other end NF3's and regaular sunburst Custom 24's are selling cheaply. The NF3 was £700 and the Custom 24's £1400 which are bargains really.. Collectors always want something a bit different and I know plenty of these kind of buyers whose wallets are always ready. I'm sure Mark H must get guitars in that he knows will sell almost immediately, its just finding those particular 'pieces'
    I think that the used prices of all Fender guitars have risen slightly which you'd expect with the new prices rapidly increasing, there's some fairly decent prices achieved for sold Custom Shop guitars on ebay.The stuff you see hanging around is usually vastly over priced and for sale by private sellers with no understanding of the market.
    agree that certain products will out perform others - Due to the high increase in price on new guitars, over the last 5 years in particular, then it is inevitable that certain used models have gone up in price accordingly

    I use the term Mondeo's and Cavaliers - ie products with no or little aspirational attributes in them, that are far more of  commodity, coupled with a shed load of them available, will always be less appertizing in the market place

    Granted I don't use e-bay and I'm not selling as a 'punter' plus I sell very little in the way of used 'Mondeo's and Cavalier's ' so I can't fully evaluate that market place - I've just had a quick look on e-bay and there are shed loads of Fenders for sale between £600 and £1000, so yes over saturated

    Equally I find the asking price of some used guitars, more by 'punters' via Reverb, FB or E-bay, that are silly and I question my knowledge for not being up to date with such prices - Or I question the sellers logic in the hope that they will acquire such a price - A recent 70's SG2000 near £2500 and USA Fullerton Vintage Reissue Strats at well over £2000
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  • jpfampsjpfamps Frets: 1455
    NelsonP said:
    The amps data is interesting. Vintage Fenders are going up, everything else is dropping.

    This suggests there may be something in the hyphothesis that people no longer want big amps, with lower stage volume, modellers etc.
    In my experience (as an amp repairer by the way) vintage Fender are much better built than other amps from that era, so are much likely to be in a serviceable condition.
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4760
    jpfamps said:
    NelsonP said:
    The amps data is interesting. Vintage Fenders are going up, everything else is dropping.

    This suggests there may be something in the hyphothesis that people no longer want big amps, with lower stage volume, modellers etc.
    In my experience (as an amp repairer by the way) vintage Fender are much better built than other amps from that era, so are much likely to be in a serviceable condition.
    and as you are fully aware, far easier to work on - Both with regards to the layout and the ease to 'strip' down and work on - Plus logic and experience as to what might be the problem/fault, before you even 'get under the bonnet' to start any repair procedure

    Dry joints on a crap printed circuit board might end up as a 10 second repair with a soldering iron - But might take a while to find the actual dry joint - Plus some poorly built products might well have a number of dry joints - As such is it worth spending 2 hours of repair time on a 20 year old Peavey Bandit, only to find it is a dry joint - ie what do you charge out your 'repair time' on an item that might only fetch £50-100

    Vintage amps are still a commodity - A Boss Katana will be come like a ghetto blaster, hence totally disposable in 5-10 years once it no longer works - sad but true
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  • Strat54Strat54 Frets: 991
    Typical '82 Fullerton era AVRI.....

    https://www.atbguitars.com/store/product/1982-fender-stratocaster-avri-ohsc-1982stratavri/

    John Page told me that these were a case of making the best of what they had back then.....which was very little. Funds, materials and info were in short supply at Fender back then.
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 3948
    Strat54 said:
    Typical '82 Fullerton era AVRI.....

    https://www.atbguitars.com/store/product/1982-fender-stratocaster-avri-ohsc-1982stratavri/

    John Page told me that these were a case of making the best of what they had back then.....which was very little. Funds, materials and info were in short supply at Fender back then.

    At that money, I'd get a Custom Shop guitar, which would probably be a much better guitar.  Or alternatively, I'd get an American Original or Mexican Classic Series, and spend the difference on taking my family on holiday.
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4760
    crunchman said:
    Strat54 said:
    Typical '82 Fullerton era AVRI.....

    https://www.atbguitars.com/store/product/1982-fender-stratocaster-avri-ohsc-1982stratavri/

    John Page told me that these were a case of making the best of what they had back then.....which was very little. Funds, materials and info were in short supply at Fender back then.

    At that money, I'd get a Custom Shop guitar, which would probably be a much better guitar.  Or alternatively, I'd get an American Original or Mexican Classic Series, and spend the difference on taking my family on holiday.
    exactly - or acquire a more recent AVRi replica which is at least just as good, if not better - I just don't see it one Iota

    Agree with you @strat54 in that at the time they were the best they had and remember this was the first time Fender, via the USA had gone back to this era - But a lot of water under the bridge since and IMO no reason to pay such a price for such a guitar - I just don't get it - Please enlighten me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 3948
    I don't get why people would spend £1k on a phone, or £5k on a watch though, but some do.
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  • Strat54Strat54 Frets: 991
    I think Mark they are trading on the Fullerton build, a connection to the Golden Era. I had an '82 '57 Strat, bought it in the US. It was no better than any of the MIJ's of the time, had an '84 52 Tele too that was very average. I see them at no more than £1500. 
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4760
    Strat54 said:
    I think Mark they are trading on the Fullerton build, a connection to the Golden Era. I had an '82 '57 Strat, bought it in the US. It was no better than any of the MIJ's of the time, had an '84 52 Tele too that was very average. I see them at no more than £1500. 
    agree at something around £1500 - they are not exactly rare either
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  • Fifty9Fifty9 Frets: 131
    crunchman said:
    Strat54 said:
    Typical '82 Fullerton era AVRI.....

    https://www.atbguitars.com/store/product/1982-fender-stratocaster-avri-ohsc-1982stratavri/

    John Page told me that these were a case of making the best of what they had back then.....which was very little. Funds, materials and info were in short supply at Fender back then.

    At that money, I'd get a Custom Shop guitar, which would probably be a much better guitar.  Or alternatively, I'd get an American Original or Mexican Classic Series, and spend the difference on taking my family on holiday.
    For that money you could get a custom shop guitar and a boutique tube amp! 
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