Barefaced AVD guitar cabs - not open backed, not closed back, not even ported; but something new!

BarefacedAudio

sgosden said:

Looks really cool, and in a climate where downsizing and portability is becoming more important this could be ideal for people. 

Are you going to be at Birmingham guitar show in Feb?

Sadly not! Is the Birmingham show viable for hearing what cabs sound like? The bass show we did was an utter cacophony and despite wearing earplugs throughout I had tinnitus for about 3 months...

simonk

digitalscream said:

BarefacedAudio said:

John_P said:

I’m not 100% sure about the colours - I agree a black and basket weave would be cool, but I really like the idea. 

Any possibilty that you will make an active version with a gigable sied power amp built in? 

Haven't considered an active version at all - do you think there's a market for that? I can see an all-valve combo being a nice thing to do at some point though.

I'd probably buy one, if it was the 12" version and could be made loud enough without going shrill and the power amp had plenty of headroom.

+1 to that.

John_P

BarefacedAudio said:

John_P said:

I’m not 100% sure about the colours - I agree a black and basket weave would be cool, but I really like the idea. 

Any possibilty that you will make an active version with a gigable sied power amp built in? 

Haven't considered an active version at all - do you think there's a market for that? I can see an all-valve combo being a nice thing to do at some point though.

I’d be tempted to buy one.    I use a Bogner mojado like that via the power amp in from a fractal ax8 most weeks.
 I’m guessing the market for people with a helix, ax8 or amplifire and looking for quality backline options is growing.  

BarefacedAudio

John_P said:

BarefacedAudio said:

John_P said:

I’m not 100% sure about the colours - I agree a black and basket weave would be cool, but I really like the idea. 

Any possibilty that you will make an active version with a gigable sied power amp built in? 

Haven't considered an active version at all - do you think there's a market for that? I can see an all-valve combo being a nice thing to do at some point though.

I’d be tempted to buy one.    I use a Bogner mojado like that via the power amp in from a fractal ax8 most weeks.
 I’m guessing the market for people with a helix, ax8 or amplifire and looking for quality backline options is growing.  

So would this be more for amplifier modelling than with a conventional amp?

digitalscream

BarefacedAudio said:

sgosden said:

Looks really cool, and in a climate where downsizing and portability is becoming more important this could be ideal for people. 

Are you going to be at Birmingham guitar show in Feb?

Sadly not! Is the Birmingham show viable for hearing what cabs sound like? The bass show we did was an utter cacophony and despite wearing earplugs throughout I had tinnitus for about 3 months...

For what it's worth...I bought my Matrix NL212 from them based on the show. Mainly because my only concerns were:

- Loud enough?
- Sound like a guitar cab with my ear next to it?
- Lightweight?

All of those things were easy to figure out at the show. No, I couldn't get any detailed audio out of it, but that wasn't the end of the world for me.

digitalscream

BarefacedAudio said:

John_P said:

BarefacedAudio said:

John_P said:

I’m not 100% sure about the colours - I agree a black and basket weave would be cool, but I really like the idea. 

Any possibilty that you will make an active version with a gigable sied power amp built in? 

Haven't considered an active version at all - do you think there's a market for that? I can see an all-valve combo being a nice thing to do at some point though.

I’d be tempted to buy one.    I use a Bogner mojado like that via the power amp in from a fractal ax8 most weeks.
 I’m guessing the market for people with a helix, ax8 or amplifire and looking for quality backline options is growing.  

So would this be more for amplifier modelling than with a conventional amp?

Well, there are three scenarios where it might be useful in my eyes...

1 - Using a modeller plugged straight into the back.
2 - If you've got preamp pedals on your board, you can skip the whole amp thing.
3 - Rack preamps without the weight of a power amp.

I've got requirements for #1 and #3, with a Helix and a Soldano X88R clone (for different bands), and it'd be really nice not to have to muck around with amps or power amps.

What I would say is that the power amp should be bypassable - so it can be used as a normal cab if someone fancies using a real amp at some point.

rpr

What about adding  a standard rack slot,so users can use their poweramp of choice?

John_P

digitalscream said:

BarefacedAudio said:

John_P said:

BarefacedAudio said:

John_P said:

I’m not 100% sure about the colours - I agree a black and basket weave would be cool, but I really like the idea. 

Any possibilty that you will make an active version with a gigable sied power amp built in? 

Haven't considered an active version at all - do you think there's a market for that? I can see an all-valve combo being a nice thing to do at some point though.

I’d be tempted to buy one.    I use a Bogner mojado like that via the power amp in from a fractal ax8 most weeks.
 I’m guessing the market for people with a helix, ax8 or amplifire and looking for quality backline options is growing.  

So would this be more for amplifier modelling than with a conventional amp?

Well, there are three scenarios where it might be useful in my eyes...

1 - Using a modeller plugged straight into the back.
2 - If you've got preamp pedals on your board, you can skip the whole amp thing.
3 - Rack preamps without the weight of a power amp.

I've got requirements for #1 and #3, with a Helix and a Soldano X88R clone (for different bands), and it'd be really nice not to have to muck around with amps or power amps.

What I would say is that the power amp should be bypassable - so it can be used as a normal cab if someone fancies using a real amp at some point.

Good thinking as then anyone that has a hx stomp, amt, Tech21 etc etc as a back up to plig in the pa could use the amp but use their pedal board and head as normal.     

A nice valve power section would would be great and probably a selling point but I’d be happy with a straight ss amp and let the pedals do the work.

ICBM

BarefacedAudio said:

Is the Birmingham show viable for hearing what cabs sound like? The bass show we did was an utter cacophony and despite wearing earplugs throughout I had tinnitus for about 3 months...

I went to the London Guitar Show once, and even with earplugs I think I lost a bit of my top-end hearing permanently. Absolutely ridiculous and I genuinely think a case where Elf 'n Safedy should step in. Never again - it was completely pointless if you wanted to try anything anyway.

Sorry, thread hijack, but it did both annoy and worry me.

BarefacedAudio

rpr said:

What about adding  a standard rack slot,so users can use their poweramp of choice?

That would be a challenge on a cab that's only 15" wide!

martinw

Welcome Alex, and good luck with what looks like an interesting new product. One of my customers uses one if your bass cabs and i was astounded at it's performance relative to it's size and weight.

You might find conservatism rather than scepticism is your biggest issue, as many players want the nearest thing to something that was made in 1959 as possible! Things are changing slowly however, with greater adoption of modelling technology etc. I wonder if looking at an FRFR application if this might be an option?

Oh, and by the way, there is a special section of the forum for manufacturers to promote their wares, us builders are asked to confine these posts to that area.

BarefacedAudio

martinw said:

Welcome Alex, and good luck with what looks like an interesting new product. One of my customers uses one if your bass cabs and i was astounded at it's performance relative to it's size and weight.

You might find conservatism rather than scepticism is your biggest issue, as many players want the nearest thing to something that was made in 1959 as possible! Things are changing slowly however, with greater adoption of modelling technology etc. I wonder if looking at an FRFR application if this might be an option?

I thought your amps looked familiar! Seafoam green Four10 and Two10S I think?

We already have some guitarists using our Big Baby 2 (passive) and FR800 (active) as FRFR cabs - they're really good at that because they're designed to be ultra high accuracy (which is a more effective goal than Full Range Flat Response). I've thought about doing a repackaged version with less deep bass response for the FRFR guitar market but there's a fair few companies making ok FRFR cabs at lower cost.

Hopefully we can start to convince guitarists that they'll get their 1959 sound but without having to always stand in the ideal spot in a room with ideal acoustics - that's what this is about!

fretmeister

I really want a pair of FR800 for my bass & Helix rig.

Need to save up some pennies first.

Trude

A couple of questions on the directionality:

What’s it like for monitoring if you put it down on the stage vs raising and/or tilting it towards your head? (I tend to avoid 1x12 cabs with heads mainly because it’s a bit awkward to tilt them and they can be wobblier than a combo if on a chair etc). Putting it on the floor would be better.

How much sound would you get from right behind the cab? In this instance less would be better as I have a keyboard player who sets up behind me and doesn’t like the stage volume from my usual open-backed combos.

BarefacedAudio

What’s it like for monitoring if you put it down on the stage vs raising and/or tilting it towards your head? (I tend to avoid 1x12 cabs with heads mainly because it’s a bit awkward to tilt them and they can be wobblier than a combo if on a chair etc). Putting it on the floor would be better.

How much sound would you get from right behind the cab? In this instance less would be better as I have a keyboard player who sets up behind me and doesn’t like the stage volume from my usual open-backed combos.

Regarding monitoring, it's much easier to hear, even when on the floor, because of how the sound from the back gets diffracted and reflected around to you.

For your keyboardist, I think you've found a niche where the AVD design wouldn't work so well - do you have to have your amp in between the two of you? Then again, the sound they'll be getting from the AVD will at least sound almost identical to the sound from the speaker at the front, so if you can adjust the level it'll sit properly in the mix.

Trude

BarefacedAudio said:
 do you have to have your amp in between the two of you? 

He's not directly behind me most of the time, but is slightly off to one side and a bit further back than my amp.  I've been thinking that a closed back, ported cab placed right in front of him might protect him a bit better.  In fairness, I tend to use bigger rigs for that particular gig, so maybe your cab isn't the best solution for that anyway.  I've been curious about the Matrix NL212 in that scenario -  maybe I should pick @digitalscream 's brain on that....

I do like the idea of a small, non-beamy cab for the smaller gigs I do.  Ironically for those I tend to use IEMs so the spread would be more for the audience's benefit than mine.  I guess the close-miked sound will be closer to a conventional cab?

BarefacedAudio

Trude said:

BarefacedAudio said:
 do you have to have your amp in between the two of you? 

He's not directly behind me most of the time, but is slightly off to one side and a bit further back than my amp.  I've been thinking that a closed back, ported cab placed right in front of him might protect him a bit better.  In fairness, I tend to use bigger rigs for that particular gig, so maybe your cab isn't the best solution for that anyway.  I've been curious about the Matrix NL212 in that scenario -  maybe I should pick @digitalscream 's brain on that....

I do like the idea of a small, non-beamy cab for the smaller gigs I do.  Ironically for those I tend to use IEMs so the spread would be more for the audience's benefit than mine.  I guess the close-miked sound will be closer to a conventional cab?

If you don't want someone hearing your cab when they're behind it then the larger the cab (height and width) the lower the frequency at which it transitions from forwards hemispherical output to omnidirectional - so there's occasionally a good reason for a 4x12"!

If you close-mic an AVD cab it'll sound sort of like a closed-back cab and sort of like an open-backed cab. As you've probably noticed, when close-miked there is far less difference in tone between the two varieties than there is out in the room, because with a close mic you mostly hear the speaker and very little of the cabs impact at lower frequencies. In fact, because of the proximity effect, any drop in bass response from an open-backed cab can be compensated by the proximity effect causing a rise in bass response at the mic. In the mid frequencies the difference in internal reflections from the panels is what causes the change in tone between an open-backed and closed-back cab.

But the really cool difference between the GX AVD cab and closed one is that you don't have a flat panel a fairly short distance behind the cone causing reflections which come back through the cone and mess with the sound of the speaker. And compared to an open cab you don't have as much in the way of up and down and side to side standing waves causing uneven response. Instead the angled panels that make the AVD break up the internal shape of the cab and mean that any reflections of standing waves have far less negative impact on the sound of the speaker.

BarefacedAudio

digitalscream said:

BarefacedAudio said:

John_P said:

I’m not 100% sure about the colours - I agree a black and basket weave would be cool, but I really like the idea. 

Any possibilty that you will make an active version with a gigable sied power amp built in? 

Haven't considered an active version at all - do you think there's a market for that? I can see an all-valve combo being a nice thing to do at some point though.

I'd probably buy one, if it was the 12" version and could be made loud enough without going shrill and the power amp had plenty of headroom.

Would this be for amp modelling use?

BarefacedAudio

digitalscream said:

BarefacedAudio said:

sgosden said:

Looks really cool, and in a climate where downsizing and portability is becoming more important this could be ideal for people. 

Are you going to be at Birmingham guitar show in Feb?

Sadly not! Is the Birmingham show viable for hearing what cabs sound like? The bass show we did was an utter cacophony and despite wearing earplugs throughout I had tinnitus for about 3 months...

For what it's worth...I bought my Matrix NL212 from them based on the show. Mainly because my only concerns were:

- Loud enough?
- Sound like a guitar cab with my ear next to it?
- Lightweight?

All of those things were easy to figure out at the show. No, I couldn't get any detailed audio out of it, but that wasn't the end of the world for me.

We're doing a one month free trial for now for UK customers - so if you buy it on a credit card, try it for a few weeks and then return it (in as-new condition) before you get your credit card bill for that month, you can use it properly (on home, rehearsals, gigs) without it costing anything or tying up any of your own money. If you're debit cards only then we'd be sitting on your money whilst you have the cab but you'd still got the lot back, including our return shipping charge once we have a perfect cab back in our hands.

Of course the real risk is that you wouldn't want to send it back! ;-) 

BarefacedAudio

digitalscream said:

BarefacedAudio said:

John_P said:

I’m not 100% sure about the colours - I agree a black and basket weave would be cool, but I really like the idea. 

Any possibilty that you will make an active version with a gigable sied power amp built in? 

Haven't considered an active version at all - do you think there's a market for that? I can see an all-valve combo being a nice thing to do at some point though.

I'd probably buy one, if it was the 12" version and could be made loud enough without going shrill and the power amp had plenty of headroom.

Would this be for amp modelling use?