Guitar price depreciation

redtheblue

Why do top end guitars lose value at all? I refer to a pre-owned guitar I just bought which, I believe, is as good as anything out there - still. Surely we should price them objectively and class them according to the sound and build. You can't compare to a car. Some guitars shouldn't lose any value in my opinion. - Or hardly any. Atkin is my guitar of choice.

redtheblue

UNless they are priced too high in the first place by the manufacturer! I may add...

jellybelly

Unless the warranty is transferable, there’s one massive bonus to buying new, plus all the legal protection you get from buying new. You also get to chose which one you want (if there are several) or if you’re talking about top-end stuff, completely customise it to YOUR specs, not accept someone else’s. I wouldn’t pay anything like a new price for anything used unless it was (a) super rare and no longer made or (b) a house. 

redtheblue

OK...I see that...but somethimes a guitar is simply so brilliant. Or hard to get hold of. Perhaps that's the point. I have a feeling some guitars are really hard to get hold of on the market and am surprised the price drops so much. Thanks for your answer!

pmbomb

 Atkin is my guitar of choice.

Never heard of them. That's your answer - selling into a tiny market. Secondly, past a certain point, you're paying emotionally (because you want to) not because you have to to get a good instrument.

jellybelly

pmbomb said:

 Atkin is my guitar of choice.

Never heard of them. That's your answer - selling into a tiny market. Secondly, past a certain point, you're paying emotionally (because you want to) not because you have to to get a good instrument.

That’s a good point!! You stand a much better chance of getting close to the new price if you’re selling a discontinued USA Fender I’d bet...

all this said, I’ve been looking at buying a HX Effect pedal - £399 new but people paying £350ish on eBay. That doesn’t make sense to me at all!!!

p90fool

redtheblue said:

Why do top end guitars lose value at all? 

This is a tough one. Logically if you buy a piece of gear second hand in good nick and sell it a year later in the same condition you should get your money back. 

This seems to work seamlessly with mainstream gear, but in practice it's less reliable with more "niche" products as fashion, mythology and the explosion thereof plays a huge part. 

In your particular example of Atkin guitars my personal knowledge of them reputation-wise over the last six months has transitioned from "never heard of them" through "only an Atkin is good enough" to "sounds ok I suppose, unconvincing aged finish"

This is purely hearsay obviously, but don't expect used prices to be unaffected. 

I personally have a talent for buying at peaks and selling at troughs, fighting off fellow enthusiasts to get my hands on something then wondering where they all went when I'm selling it. 

DB1

Tell me if I'm wrong here, but a new guitar, I assume, will carry VAT, so a £3600 guitar is actually a £3000 guitar after it becomes used, without any depreciation factored in. 

Paul7926

The minute anything is second hand the price is negotiable*.  It's only 'worth' what someone will pay for it.  As noted above there are things you get buying new which you don't privately.  So that will effect value.  Normal market forces will effect value as well.  If there are several of the same thing on the market then people will naturally go with the cheapest.  

Paying what something is 'worth' based on the sound and build is a nice idea but it's totally subjective so one individual will value something differently to the next.  You don't even have a consensus in the new market and it's why there is this constant friction between, for example, high end Epiphone owners who swear that their guitar is better than a Gibson costing multiple times the price and Gibson owners who insist they are not. (that's just one example there are many others).  Just look at the PRS thread active at the moment for an example of totally different opinions on the same guitars.

About the only thing I've learned about guitars in the few months I've been a member here is that they are not like a computer where you can pretty easily compare specs and decide on the relative worth.  They are musical instruments and as such there is a whole host of things, some purely emotional, that matter personally to the individual that change their 'worth' to each person.

If we pick on me as an example.  I have an illogical like for the mythical 'Gibson' name so that matters to me in some way (although not that much, see later point).  I have a similar illogical dislike of the 'Fender' look so I'm never going to value them objectively.  I have a very limited budget so it doesn't matter how good a guitar might be if it's more than £500 I'm never going to buy it, I could never justify the expense.  I don't like the idea of 'relic' guitars so I'll never buy one where as people that do will value them above a brand new guitar that may well sound the same.  My playing ability at this stage certainly doesn't warrant anything more than the 'beginner' guitar I have anyway.  If I had something much better it might be slightly 'easier' to play (maybe) but I'm not going to get any massive talent increase just by using it.  I do have my eye on my 'next' guitar but the colour I want isn't available at the moment so I won't buy one in another colour.  I mean musically that makes no sense but it's stopping me buying anything.  Which basically means I 'value' one guitar at it's market price and an identical guitar just in a different colour as 'worth' nothing. 



*Sometimes you can even negotiate on new prices but it's much more common in the second hand market. 

carlos

jellybelly said:

all this said, I’ve been looking at buying a HX Effect pedal - £399 new but people paying £350ish on eBay. That doesn’t make sense to me at all!!!

I paid £200 for mine from an elderly gentleman who couldn't "figure out how the bloody thing works".

skullfunkerry

p90fool said:

I personally have a talent for buying at peaks and selling at troughs, fighting off fellow enthusiasts to get my hands on something then wondering where they all went when I'm selling it. 

You and me both, dude

richardhomer

Unless a guitar is badly damaged (eg a headstock break) after purchase, or the frets become heavily worn, I’m not convinced any high-quality used guitar depreciates. 

I’ve bought a used CS (from a dealer) and a used PRS DGT (privately) in the last couple of years. I could easily get my money back if I wanted to sell.

musicman100

Once you start talking about 2nd hand gear it’s a mind field regarding prices. 
Something is only worth what someone is prepared to pay. 
Generally on about higher end stuff here tho. 

Henrytwang

The price of used guitars is largely set by the dealers trade in price. Regardless of the sellers perceived value a dealer will only offer a price based on his ability to easily sell the instrument when his mark up is added. Selling in the private market will almost always achieve a higher price to the seller but they will never be able to sell a guitar at a higher price than a dealer is asking. Selling a very expensive guitar privately can be difficult as many of these guitars are bought by people requiring credit facilities such as 0% credit or credit card. Of course if you keep a quality guitar for a long time you can expect to sell for much more than you paid for it, I have several Fenders and Gibson’s which I purchased in the 60/70s which are worth many time their original purchase price.

munckee

p90fool said:

redtheblue said:

Why do top end guitars lose value at all? 

This is a tough one. Logically if you buy a piece of gear second hand in good nick and sell it a year later in the same condition you should get your money back. 

This seems to work seamlessly with mainstream gear, but in practice it's less reliable with more "niche" products as fashion, mythology and the explosion thereof plays a huge part. 

In your particular example of Atkin guitars my personal knowledge of them reputation-wise over the last six months has transitioned from "never heard of them" through "only an Atkin is good enough" to "sounds ok I suppose, unconvincing aged finish"

This is purely hearsay obviously, but don't expect used prices to be unaffected. 

I personally have a talent for buying at peaks and selling at troughs, fighting off fellow enthusiasts to get my hands on something then wondering where they all went when I'm selling it. 

its not just me that does that then.

mbe

Simple factors of supply and demand, sometimes predictable sometimes not, generally determine used prices.

carlos

mbe said:

Simple factors of supply and demand, sometimes predictable sometimes not, generally determine used prices.

There are also trends. Case in point Kurt Cobain and other grungers buying offset Fender models who had faded into obscurity and making them fashionable again. Suddenly they went from pawn shop fodder to collector's items.

Snags

I think the VAT point is very salient.

Add to that the fact that we are culturally condition to consider new to be superior to secondhand - up until the point another factor comes into play (vintage, celebrity association, scarcity, other 'mojo' enhancers).  Even in the face of knowing that generally e.g. acoustic guitars often benefit from "playing in" and such like.

So if we're talking a current model, why would I pay the new price, or fairly close to the new price, to a private individual where there is risk (has it really been looked after properly? Am I going to find damage or abuse down the line? what recourse will I have (none)?) when I could walk into a shop, play a few of the same model and choose exactly the one I want, use a credit card, get some strings/picks/strap/stand/goodies thrown in, get a warranty and the opportunity to have any minor niggles addressed at the time of purchase etc. 

It does, however, make sense that there are basically two prices for an instrument: the new price, and the secondhand price, and it doesn't really matter how much 'more secondhand' it becomes, as long as the condition remains the same, the re-sale price is unlikely to fluctuate much (all other things being equal).

wesker123

carlos said:

jellybelly said:

all this said, I’ve been looking at buying a HX Effect pedal - £399 new but people paying £350ish on eBay. That doesn’t make sense to me at all!!!

I paid £200 for mine from an elderly gentleman who couldn't "figure out how the bloody thing works".

Was it Dan Steinhardt 

Blueingreen

If you really think second hand guitars should be priced the same as new ones you're a lucky boy.  Every time you buy a used guitar you're getting a stonking bargain.

AlexO

They don't if you are a bedroom dealer...