How can I work out the root note of a chord?

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I sometimes come up with chord shapes but I don't know what the root note is. I appreciate that it's not always as simple as saying it's the lowest note as it could be an inversion. Part of my reason for asking is so that I can work out the chord name. I'm hoping that someone with much better theory knowledge than me could help!
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  • You're right.. it's never that easy, because you're assuming that you are actually including the root and that it's not implied...

    hearing the major/minor tonality is good start... then identifying the intervals between the notes.. trying to spot the minor  or major 3rds.. 5ths etc
    My trading feedback

    is it crazy how saying sentences backwards creates backwards sentences saying how crazy it is?

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  • Thanks @bloodandtears I can usually hear if it's major or minor, but I hadn't considered looking at the intervals. More often than not, the shapes I come up with are extended chords, which complicates it further! I'll try your suggested approach as it should improve my limited theoretical knowledge.
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  • The name of a chord also needs to be put in context with the chords around it, and the key of the piece. This means that the same set of notes can have a number of names. It’s a fun bit of mental musical gymnastics.
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  • Sometimes you can "hear" it especially when you play the chord in the context of other chords in the progression.
    If you can identify the notes you are playing as eg a 3rd and a 7th can you supply the 5th, the root? Suppose you're playing an F# and a C and you think they may be 3rd and b7 then the 5th would be A and the root D. OTOH if the sound isn't "dominant" they may be b3 and bb7 so you could supply A as b5 and D# as root (as in a dim7 chord). It's a question of pattern recognition, seeing what fits a chord structure. As @ArchtopDave said it can be fun!  
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • Many thanks @ArchtopDave and @Phil_aka_Pip It's the possibility of varying chord names that has partly confused me, and I hadn't really considered the context. Looks like I need to think this through a bit more!
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  • As an example, take a single Diminished 7th Chord. The notes in the chord are each a minor third apart, so the chord structure is completely symmetrical. This means any of the 4 notes in the chord can be the root note, though you will need to rename one or more of the notes in order for them to be correct from the theory point of view.
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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 9794
    edited December 2018
    @CarpeDiem yes - look for frequently used progressions ii V I, or I vi IV V. Secondary dominants such as II V or III vi ... some of my favourite songs use vi V IV (if viewed from a maj scale perspective) or i bVII bVI if viewed from an aeolian perspective eg Am G F there's a lot of them around.
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • m_cm_c Frets: 1211
    Having a very good understanding of chord construction is oner way, alternatively I can highly recommend smartChord app on Andriod. I've just checked and it's not available for Apple, but I'm sure something similar is.

    It's free, and contains lots of handy little things, like working out chord names from fingering, or coming up with alternative fingering for chords. It also has a lot of things that come in handy for theory work.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10645
    edited December 2018
    I think it happens instinctively and instantaneously for more practised musicians, but what must be happening is your mind must be scanning the likely possible notes, based on clues like the harmonic progression, the actual audible notes, etc, and plumping on the root. For most chords apart from ambiguous or sparse chords like described above, there is only one reasonable answer and it’s pure instinct.

    Practically speaking I think maybe what’s required is just loads of critical listening till it’s instinctive, or maybe take up bass. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • VeganicVeganic Frets: 673
    It's hard to see if any of this works without examples.  I have been trying to learn a few chord-melody things for Christmas and it's been an eye opener to see the same chord shapes with different names.  B dim also being  ( or not being) G7b9 for example.
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  • Thanks for all your comments, which are really helpful. I started this thread under what now appears a narrow question, but from your responses, I need to focus more on musicality and context. I have been trying not to use tab to learn songs for a while and trying to transcribe by ear, which has improved my abilities, notably in what I'm hearing including progression sequences. I guess I need to listen more critically, as @viz has suggested as it's not instinctive for me as I'm having to deconstruct things to work out what's happening.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10645
    edited December 2018
    Christmas carols are excellent practice because they’re stuffed full of inversions and chord progressions, but they’re also really well-known and harmonically very natural. Take the first four syllables of Once in Roy-al for instance, in F major. There are many versions but have a look at this version as an example:

    http://i.imgur.com/saUyvuS.jpg

    The chords in that first bar are I-V7-I-I, or G-D7-G-G. If you were playing bass guitar to a really simple level, you’d play G-D-G-G. 

    However here the bass line here is G - A - B - G. 
    And the tune is D - F# - G - G

    So if you are singing bass, you are basically singing root, 2nd inv, 1st inv, root. And if you’re singing treble, you’re singing the 5th, 3rd, 1st and 1st of the underlying chords. In fact each of the 4 voices have valid tunes throughout the piece - that’s the beauty of well-written 4-part harmony and that’s why it’s difficult to decipher.

    But you must train yourself to put that aside and pull out the chord structure that underlies all this shifting harmony, to recognise the I-V-I-I progression and play that G-D-G-G in your mind, just like the grade 1 bass guitarist would. It takes time, but I think most of the trick is to try and ignore the confusing cues given by the harmonic interplay and stubbonly pull out the roots of each chord. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • BarneyBarney Frets: 614
    The same chord can have different names so you really have to look at the chords around it as well...I usually look at root and 3rd and go from there ...a god way and by no means a shortcut but what does really sort things out is learning the triads on all the string sets across the strings and up and down the fretboard you end up starting to see these within the chords 

    Another thing is you could have rootless voicings or ones that don't have the 5th .  Say like a Am9 without the root note being the same as a Cmaj7 ...its probably same as the human language a lot of random words can have different meanings until part of a sentance 
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  • HAL9000HAL9000 Frets: 9551
    As others have already said it’s all about context. I guess I’d normally think about what triad I’d use if I wasn’t using an extended chord, then take it from there.
    I play guitar because I enjoy it rather than because I’m any good at it
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  • CarpeDiem said:
    Thanks for all your comments, which are really helpful. I started this thread under what now appears a narrow question, but from your responses, I need to focus more on musicality and context. I have been trying not to use tab to learn songs for a while and trying to transcribe by ear, which has improved my abilities, notably in what I'm hearing including progression sequences. I guess I need to listen more critically, as @viz has suggested as it's not instinctive for me as I'm having to deconstruct things to work out what's happening.
    Deconstructing things is a necessary part of the learning process, as you will then hopefully be able to better understand how the music is put together. As with many things in music, plenty of practice is needed. Also, it's a bit like becoming familiar with a foreign language - there's a stage where you have to translate in your head before speaking; with steady practice, you start to be able to think in the foreign language, and dispense with the conscious translation stage.
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  • CarpeDiem said:
    Thanks for all your comments, which are really helpful. I started this thread under what now appears a narrow question, but from your responses, I need to focus more on musicality and context. I have been trying not to use tab to learn songs for a while and trying to transcribe by ear, which has improved my abilities, notably in what I'm hearing including progression sequences. I guess I need to listen more critically, as @viz has suggested as it's not instinctive for me as I'm having to deconstruct things to work out what's happening.
    Deconstructing things is a necessary part of the learning process, as you will then hopefully be able to better understand how the music is put together. As with many things in music, plenty of practice is needed. Also, it's a bit like becoming familiar with a foreign language - there's a stage where you have to translate in your head before speaking; with steady practice, you start to be able to think in the foreign language, and dispense with the conscious translation stage.
    Thanks @ArchtopDave It sounds like there is hope, and it's a question of working at it!
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  • bigjonbigjon Frets: 680
    Just starting to think how you could approach this question algorithmically - obviously there will be lots of exceptions, but -

    1) Are there 3 distinct pitches and no more?
    2) Can they be arranged within the span of 7 semitones so that they are at least 3 semitones apart?
    3) If so, the lowest note of the three when so arranged will be the root note (excepting all the many exceptions)

    I reckon this would get you there about 90%+ of the time in pop / rock music
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