Using fussy fuzzes with a Whammy and buffers

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thecolourboxthecolourbox Frets: 9654
edited December 2018 in FX
In an attempt to stabilise the revolving door of pedals I would like to arrange the favourite pedals on a board so as to get a set up I like and get used to it. But the fuzz I like doesn't get on with a few other elements of the signals chain. The fuzz is a Little Bear Woolly Mammoth clone, but I've also tried it with a Dr J fuzz face. I imagine the same problems with a Fuzz Factory. The stuff it doesn't get on with are as follows:

The Wireless system I use to avoid ground hum - I think it's low impedance so effectively a buffer, so the fuzz goes nuts with that before it. It sounds better if I use a TC Teleporter receiver, Jack plug to XLR into that, then Jack to the pedal. But that's a big amount of faff, albeit a faff that works (without any other of the problematic stuff in the chain)

The Digitech Whammy - tried it before and after the Fuzz and it seems to add a lot of noise to it. Might be a power supply issue though as it was plugged into a standard 9v supply which may not be the best quality whereas the normal non-thirsty pedals are on a Trex isolated supply.

The Boss Multi Overtone - as it's a buffer it cacks the fuzz out whether it's straight before or straight after it, do have to make sure if I use it after the Fuzz there's another non buffer pedal between them. This pedal sounds absolutely awful without fuzzy drive so unfortunately needs to be on with the fuzz.

So what to do? 

- I have a Loop Switcher I could try to employ, in fact I'd like to use that to make switching easier but I'm fairly sure I can't find a way to set it to help

- do I replace the fuzz? A Dod Carcosa? On my GSP1101 I actually use a Mesa Triple Rec amp model instead of fuzz, so maybe a Rectifier type drive pedal might work instead? Digitech Grunge is also an unlikely candidate as I also use that on the Gsp too.

- is there a hack that I could employ to use a Woolly Mammoth/Fuzz Factory type fuzz alongside other things?

Slightly problematic also is that I don't have an amp at the moment so this could be exacerbated by having to run the trial and error diagnostics through the digital GSP1101, but I'm fairly sure this was the case with the amp as well.

Any tips and hints and suggestions on how others do this would be greatly received.

I was looking at the chap from Muse's set up as I thought he used the fuzz factory as loop switchers but I think he just has the pedal built into the guitar presumably for the same reasons!

Thanks
Please note my communication is not very good, so please be patient with me
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Comments

  • Do you absolutely need the wireless system? Running the guitar straight into the fuzz with a cable should make the fuzz at least play nice.

    Or if you're determined to avoid the ground hum what about running

    Guitar - > cable - > fuzz (on a battery) - > wireless - > rest of board? 
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  • thecolourboxthecolourbox Frets: 9654
    edited December 2018
    That is an order of things I haven't tried actually (damn you haha) so I'll give that a go. I have not tried that previously because I'd assumed the Wireless only worked to remove the hum because it was between the guitar and the electrically powered stuff.

    The Whammy and Boss problems still occur regardless of the wireless system's involvement, the resting noise is just write without the wireless
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  • Magnetic_EffectsMagnetic_Effects Frets: 135
    tFB Trader
    In these situations I think the easiest thing to do is get a fuzz that works fine with buffers. Any fuzz that works with buffers will also work with a wireless. 

    The Whammy, and any digital pitch shifting pedals, will most likely add noise if not run on an isolated power supply. 
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  • Right tried the Wireless "mid chain" as suggested above, I like the thinking but unfortunately it wasn't to be

    Guitar - > cable - > fuzz (on a battery) - > wireless - > rest of board = made the most horrendous high pitched whistling noise that could only be stopped by turning off the GSP and switching it back on again. As soon as I played a note... High pitched whistle. Bizarre.

    I also tried the wireless at the end of the chain sending to the GSP which sounded no different to cabling it, or didn't remove the hum.


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  • thecolourboxthecolourbox Frets: 9654
    edited December 2018
    In these situations I think the easiest thing to do is get a fuzz that works fine with buffers. Any fuzz that works with buffers will also work with a wireless. 
    Yeah I reckon so, but I think it would have to be a non-fuzz as the fuzzes I like seem to be incompatible. Maybe the Dod Carcosa might do it. But I reckon I need to look into Rectifier type distortion pedals as that's the amp model I've used when doing it all in the Gsp without pedals, but it would have to be a pedal which could tame the high trebly screaming sound you get on that kind of sounds (especially as I use the bridge pickup). Forgive me, I don't play metal, but I find that metal distortions have a trebly scream element to them that I presume is used for those pinch harmonics but is no use when playing fuzz rhythm or Whammy-ed up lead

    The Whammy, and any digital pitch shifting pedals, will most likely add noise if not run on an isolated power supply. 

    Brace yourself, there's a stupid question coming here. If the whammy is on a different power supply to every other pedal, but on the same extension lead, does the supply to the Whammy still need to be an isolated one? It's not something I've ever considered before, I thought it was only if it was using the same power supply

    Please note my communication is not very good, so please be patient with me
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  • timbuk02timbuk02 Frets: 271
    Am sure I read a similar thread where someone had hassles with wireless or buffers etc and fuzz, and their happy ending was a Magnetic Effects White Atom...
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  • timbuk02 said:
    Am sure I read a similar thread where someone had hassles with wireless or buffers etc and fuzz, and their happy ending was a Magnetic Effects White Atom...
    I've just YouTube searched it and clicked the PGS demo but that's unfortunately not the sound I'm after, will watch some other videos in the morning though just in case
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  • You must be doing something wrong to get so much noise. You probably need a proper poeer supply for the Whammy.
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  • You must be doing something wrong to get so much noise. You probably need a proper poeer supply for the Whammy.
    In fairness I've always had noise problems, in two separate houses, several different guitars and amps, loads of pedals, so whilst I could do with checking the quality of the Whammy supply, there's always noise regardless of what combination of stuff I use. Only the Wireless seems to do anything about it, but the Whammy with this particular fuzz creates noise that isn't just ground hum or whatever the normal noise is. God knows, I should just stick to piano
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  • I run a zvex wooly mammoth before my whammy. The whammy is on its own power supply and from the same extension lead as the rest of the board and doesn't give me any noise issues.
    You could get a Harley Benton power plant junior as the doubler cable on that will give you enough power to run the whammy, and doesn't make any noise.
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  • NorthernStompsNorthernStomps Frets: 398
    tFB Trader
    In these situations I think the easiest thing to do is get a fuzz that works fine with buffers. Any fuzz that works with buffers will also work with a wireless
     
    What Christian is saying here but is too polite to say it outright, is you need to buy a Magnetic Effects fuzz such as the solar bender or white atom, which work fine with buffers

    trust me, you will not be disappointed. I get so much great feedback about them at shows and via email. Plus you can take my endorsement too, for what it’s worth!

    Facebook: @northernstomps // Instagram: @northernstomps // Twitter: @northernstomps

    Specialist Retailer Of Handmade British Stompboxes // https://www.northernstomps.com/

    Currently Stocking: Hudson Electronic/Raygun FX/Zander Circuitry/ThorpyFX/Rainger FX/Life is Unfair/ Magnetic Effects/Fredric Effects

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  • In these situations I think the easiest thing to do is get a fuzz that works fine with buffers. Any fuzz that works with buffers will also work with a wireless
     
    What Christian is saying here but is too polite to say it outright, is you need to buy a Magnetic Effects fuzz such as the solar bender or white atom, which work fine with buffers

    trust me, you will not be disappointed. I get so much great feedback about them at shows and via email. Plus you can take my endorsement too, for what it’s worth!
    They're both lovely pedals but don't quite do the sound I'm aiming at unfortunately
    Please note my communication is not very good, so please be patient with me
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  • borntohangborntohang Frets: 128
    edited December 2018
    No dog in the fight, but my Carcosa is exceedingly well behaved with buffers. By which I mean it's as terribly-behaved as normal, but in a reliable way. I have a buffer in front of it and one afterwards and it doesn't have any issues at all.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    The Whammy is known to cause noise issues with things like fuzzes if not used on a totally isolated power supply, but it sounds like there may be more to it than that.

    If you're not using an amp, is any part of the signal chain earthed? I can't remember if the GSP1101 is - if not, that may explain the amount of noise. You shouldn't need to use a wireless to cure noise issues in the UK, since equipment should be earthed.

    Personally I've lost patience with pedals which don't work with other pedals, buffers, power supplies etc and tend to think of it as just bad design, but maybe that's just me...

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • ICBM said:
    The Whammy is known to cause noise issues with things like fuzzes if not used on a totally isolated power supply, but it sounds like there may be more to it than that.
    There only seem to be multi-output isolated supplies when I google this, I may as well just give up on the Whammy I think as buying another multi output PSU seems to cost as much as the Whammy.

    ICBM said:
    If you're not using an amp, is any part of the signal chain earthed? I can't remember if the GSP1101 is - if not, that may explain the amount of noise. You shouldn't need to use a wireless to cure noise issues in the UK, since equipment should be earthed.
    It's not just the GSP there have been the humming/buzzing problems with, I've done various threads on it in the past and it has happened with (but not limited to) a Hot Rod Deluxe, Pro Junior, HT5, Lil Night Train, Supro 1605r, Vox Brian May Special, as well as preamps such as Marshall JMP1, Mesa V Twin, Zoom G3, and latterly the GSP. I don't actually know whether it's ground hum or not really, that's just what I call it, but I always seem to have problems with the same thing, single coils or humbuckers, pedals or no, amps or no.

    ICBM said:

    Personally I've lost patience with pedals which don't work with other pedals, buffers, power supplies etc and tend to think of it as just bad design, but maybe that's just me...
    Agreed, If I didn't dislike acoustic music so much I'd happily just give up on life and do that instead


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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    thecolourbox said:

    There only seem to be multi-output isolated supplies when I google this, I may as well just give up on the Whammy I think as buying another multi output PSU seems to cost as much as the Whammy.
    You can just use a single power supply for the Whammy - I had to do that for a friend who was using a Drop on his pedalboard and caused terrible noise with his fuzzes. Bear in mind that the Whammy power supply is 9V *AC* and not what's commonly called an "AC adaptor", which is actually DC.

    thecolourbox said:

    It's not just the GSP there have been the humming/buzzing problems with, I've done various threads on it in the past and it has happened with (but not limited to) a Hot Rod Deluxe, Pro Junior, HT5, Lil Night Train, Supro 1605r, Vox Brian May Special, as well as preamps such as Marshall JMP1, Mesa V Twin, Zoom G3, and latterly the GSP. I don't actually know whether it's ground hum or not really, that's just what I call it, but I always seem to have problems with the same thing, single coils or humbuckers, pedals or no, amps or no.
    All in the same house? If so, get your mains earthing checked.

    thecolourbox said:

    Agreed, If I didn't dislike acoustic music so much I'd happily just give up on life and do that instead
    :)

    You don't need to - just avoid any pedals which aren't properly designed. I've stopped using anything other than Boss and a very few others, all of which have buffered switching and are largely immune to noise and power supply issues. The DOD Grunge is, but the more modern recent Digitechs with the click switch probably aren't.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • thecolourboxthecolourbox Frets: 9654
    edited December 2018
    Not the same house no, two different houseshou different towns.

    The whammy is on its own supply, I think though it is DC on the Whammy 5 whereas on previous versions it was AC.

    Re avoiding badly designed pedals yes there is that, it's a shame as I've only relatively recently realised the Fuzz Factory/Woolly Mammoth are the fuzz noises I was after but I don't know of any "play nice" pedals which do that sound. The Boss fuzzes seem more vintage based, maybe Carcosa could do it enough but I'm not sure.

    I do have an HX FX (which also seems a bit noisy like wind blowing through a digital ether) which I've not properly got to grips with which has the Fuzz Factory and Bit Crusher so I may have to give that another go with the wireless, but it does seem silly to have such a large unit and then use more "outboard" pedals with it than I'm using on the unit! (overdrives, Octavia, Whammy, overtone). But I suppose if it works...


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  • In these situations I think the easiest thing to do is get a fuzz that works fine with buffers. Any fuzz that works with buffers will also work with a wireless. 

    The Whammy, and any digital pitch shifting pedals, will most likely add noise if not run on an isolated power supply. 
    This is the direction I think I'll be going in the near future i.e. White Atom
    Link to my trading feedback:  http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/59452/
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960

    Re avoiding badly designed pedals yes there is that, it's a shame as I've only relatively recently realised the Fuzz Factory/Woolly Mammoth are the fuzz noises I was after but I don't know of any "play nice" pedals which do that sound.
    The Zoom Ultra Fuzz does Fuzz Factory-type sounds, but it is also a little buffer-sensitive to one in front. Not as bad as the real Fuzz Factory though.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • Brace yourselves again for a ridiculously stupid question. Two in fact.

    Are some people just more susceptible to noise than others? As it seems to follow me specifically around, with new and used kit that others have used without issue. I suppose the likelihood that I’m doing something wrong in general is more likely than me being a walking Tesla coil but thought worth an ask. I don’t wear nylon kickers, if that helps.

    Secondly, I’ve tried using Ground Isolators (an Orchid one and a cheap Behringer one) which I thought in theory should do the same job as the Wireless, but require less space and less power and cables etc. But bizarrely they don’t, without the Ground isolator it’s ground noise until I touch the strings or something metal, with the Ground isolator it’s the other way around ie the same noise starts when I touch the strings. Any clues on that while we’re at it?!

    Please note my communication is not very good, so please be patient with me
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