Crop sensor camera lenses - help!

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  • RMJRMJ Frets: 1257
    @stickyfiddle @ThePrettyDamned does Adobe now support Fuji RAW files? It appears to from Adobe website, but reading a lot of reviews, albeit from a few years back, which suggest that isn't the case.


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  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 11222
    LightroomCC and mobile certainly does. Not sure which was the first of the standalone versions to support it. pretty sure LR5 didn’t.
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  • RMJRMJ Frets: 1257
    LightroomCC and mobile certainly does. Not sure which was the first of the standalone versions to support it. pretty sure LR5 didn’t.
    Thanks. 
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  • RMJ said:
    LightroomCC and mobile certainly does. Not sure which was the first of the standalone versions to support it. pretty sure LR5 didn’t.
    Thanks. 

    Agree with all the above, but... 

    If you don't need localised adjustments, I *highly* recommend trying the free capture one fujifilm edition - it doesn't, to my eyes, do a better job than Lightroom but it gets me to those results far quicker, especially with regards to colour and contrast - despite me preferring the way Lightroom works in general, it seems to take more work to get the vibrance right. Capture one has a simpler vignette tool that just works fantastically well - where the Lightroom version can get the same result with a fair bit more tweaking. 

    If you absolutely need brushes, graduated filters etc then Lightroom will be the one.
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  • RMJRMJ Frets: 1257
    RMJ said:
    LightroomCC and mobile certainly does. Not sure which was the first of the standalone versions to support it. pretty sure LR5 didn’t.
    Thanks. 

    Agree with all the above, but... 

    If you don't need localised adjustments, I *highly* recommend trying the free capture one fujifilm edition - it doesn't, to my eyes, do a better job than Lightroom but it gets me to those results far quicker, especially with regards to colour and contrast - despite me preferring the way Lightroom works in general, it seems to take more work to get the vibrance right. Capture one has a simpler vignette tool that just works fantastically well - where the Lightroom version can get the same result with a fair bit more tweaking. 

    If you absolutely need brushes, graduated filters etc then Lightroom will be the one.
    I'm just used to the workflow in Lightroom and how to apply adjustments. Shadows, highlights, exposure are the things I correct more than saturation etc. 
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  • RMJ said:
    RMJ said:
    LightroomCC and mobile certainly does. Not sure which was the first of the standalone versions to support it. pretty sure LR5 didn’t.
    Thanks. 

    Agree with all the above, but... 

    If you don't need localised adjustments, I *highly* recommend trying the free capture one fujifilm edition - it doesn't, to my eyes, do a better job than Lightroom but it gets me to those results far quicker, especially with regards to colour and contrast - despite me preferring the way Lightroom works in general, it seems to take more work to get the vibrance right. Capture one has a simpler vignette tool that just works fantastically well - where the Lightroom version can get the same result with a fair bit more tweaking. 

    If you absolutely need brushes, graduated filters etc then Lightroom will be the one.
    I'm just used to the workflow in Lightroom and how to apply adjustments. Shadows, highlights, exposure are the things I correct more than saturation etc. 

    That's what I mean when I talk about contrast adjustments - for sure Lightroom is fine, and if not for photoshop I'd ditch my subscription. Definitely worth a go - you'll recover shadows so much easier with capture one. 

    But again, I don't think it's better or worse - just a neat idea if you want to save money :) 
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  • GrumpyrockerGrumpyrocker Frets: 1267
    Sharpening of Fuji RAW files is so much better in Capture One than Lightroom. 

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  • RMJRMJ Frets: 1257
    edited January 10
    Sit-rep.....

    17-55 is going back and I've ordered a used Fuji XT10 and 18-55 lens. Overall it's a bit more than the cost of the Canon lens. But I think I'll be much happier on my trip with the Fuji. Also, longer term, a smaller camera will probably encourage me to take it more places, and therefore take more photos.  

    I'm really impressed by reports of in-camera jpeg production in the Fuji X series. I dont really want the hassle of editing raw images if I can help it, so having good results out of the box is another thing that will encourage me to take more photos. I'll obviously have to witness the outputs in the flesh first, but can see me ditching my DSLR.

    Thanks to everyone for your help with this.


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  • RMJ said:
    Sit-rep.....

    17-55 is going back and I've ordered a used Fuji XT10 and 18-55 lens. Overall it's a bit more than the cost of the Canon lens. But I think I'll be much happier on my trip with the Fuji. Also, longer term, a smaller camera will probably encourage me to take it more places, and therefore take more photos.  

    I'm really impressed by reports of in-camera jpeg production in the Fuji X series. I dont really want the hassle of editing raw images if I can help it, so having good results out of the box is another thing that will encourage me to take more photos. I'll obviously have to witness the outputs in the flesh first, but can see me ditching my DSLR.

    Thanks to everyone for your help with this.



    The xt2 means I take more photos - and the jpegs are very good, sharp and good colours. You can tweak them too. But it's the size and how it looks I like the most - although not much smaller than a D7200 it really looks smaller and just feels better to use. The 80s plastic SLR thing is pretty ugly, so it's nice to have a camera that looks as nice as it performs.
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  • RMJRMJ Frets: 1257
    RMJ said:
    Sit-rep.....

    17-55 is going back and I've ordered a used Fuji XT10 and 18-55 lens. Overall it's a bit more than the cost of the Canon lens. But I think I'll be much happier on my trip with the Fuji. Also, longer term, a smaller camera will probably encourage me to take it more places, and therefore take more photos.  

    I'm really impressed by reports of in-camera jpeg production in the Fuji X series. I dont really want the hassle of editing raw images if I can help it, so having good results out of the box is another thing that will encourage me to take more photos. I'll obviously have to witness the outputs in the flesh first, but can see me ditching my DSLR.

    Thanks to everyone for your help with this.



    The xt2 means I take more photos - and the jpegs are very good, sharp and good colours. You can tweak them too. But it's the size and how it looks I like the most - although not much smaller than a D7200 it really looks smaller and just feels better to use. The 80s plastic SLR thing is pretty ugly, so it's nice to have a camera that looks as nice as it performs.
    Yea i love the retro look of the X series. Reminds me very much of my dad's old Pentax SLR. 

    I agonized over whether I should get the XT1 over the XT10. Was only 100 quid difference amd i was already over budget with the lens too.  Anyway, will give me scope for upgrading
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  • RMJ said:
    RMJ said:
    Sit-rep.....

    17-55 is going back and I've ordered a used Fuji XT10 and 18-55 lens. Overall it's a bit more than the cost of the Canon lens. But I think I'll be much happier on my trip with the Fuji. Also, longer term, a smaller camera will probably encourage me to take it more places, and therefore take more photos.  

    I'm really impressed by reports of in-camera jpeg production in the Fuji X series. I dont really want the hassle of editing raw images if I can help it, so having good results out of the box is another thing that will encourage me to take more photos. I'll obviously have to witness the outputs in the flesh first, but can see me ditching my DSLR.

    Thanks to everyone for your help with this.



    The xt2 means I take more photos - and the jpegs are very good, sharp and good colours. You can tweak them too. But it's the size and how it looks I like the most - although not much smaller than a D7200 it really looks smaller and just feels better to use. The 80s plastic SLR thing is pretty ugly, so it's nice to have a camera that looks as nice as it performs.
    Yea i love the retro look of the X series. Reminds me very much of my dad's old Pentax SLR. 

    I agonized over whether I should get the XT1 over the XT10. Was only 100 quid difference amd i was already over budget with the lens too.  Anyway, will give me scope for upgrading

    Honestly, I went xt2 because I love photography but one of the great things about fuji is that performance is pretty consistent - I could grab an xt20 or xe3 and get the same camera, pretty much. 

    The xt10 is ace :) it's basically an xt1 with a slightly smaller body, slightly slower flash sync and no weather sealing. I don't think you'll have too much GAS! 
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  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 11222
    Honestly, I don't think you'll ever want to use your 550D again once the XT10 arrives. 
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  • RMJRMJ Frets: 1257
    XT10 and 18-55 has arrived. I haven't used it yet, but I am really impressed with the build quality of it. I see what you mean about Fuji investing in the compact system format. And the size is perfect. MUCH happier than having to lug the DSLR around new York.

    Can't wait to give it a rip now. 
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  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 11222
    Excellent!

    Looking forward to seeing some shots from it :)
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  • RMJRMJ Frets: 1257
    Excellent!

    Looking forward to seeing some shots from it :)
    Me too!! 

    I'll post some up when I get back from New York. 

    I'm already gassing at the X lenses.
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  • GrumpyrockerGrumpyrocker Frets: 1267
    RMJ said:
    XT10 and 18-55 has arrived. I haven't used it yet, but I am really impressed with the build quality of it. I see what you mean about Fuji investing in the compact system format. And the size is perfect. MUCH happier than having to lug the DSLR around new York.

    Can't wait to give it a rip now. 
    Congrats.

    I love my X-T20.

    I've got very used to having such a small yet powerful camera. Recently got a very good deal on a used X-T2 but it felt way too big (despite me being a former DSLR owner and a former X-T1 owner) so I returned it. Looks like the X-T30 will be announced soon - be interesting to see how much of the X-T3 is in there.

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  • RMJRMJ Frets: 1257
    Finally got round to looking at my images from New York over the past couple of days using the XT10 and 18-55 lens. I'm partially pleased with the results and will post some images when I get round to it.

    I'm annoyed that I didn't spend more time getting to know the camera before I went. Couple of things I noticed that affected the images I took. I found the dials on the XT10 easy to knock for example, so I ended up moving the drive dial a few times to bracket shooting. I also shot everything in jpg as I was pleased with some test images I took. In hindsight, until I had become comfortable with the in camera processing, I should have shot RAW. 

    Since returning I have had more time with the XT10 and am much more comfortable with it. I'm actually shooting manual alot with it and bought a 35mm f2, which I absolutely love. 

    I'm trying to resist temptation of chopping in and upgrading to an XT20 or XT2. I think I'd benefit from the larger sensor as I tend to crop alot and rarely am happy with my compositions as shot. However, I think the limitations of the XT10 may be helpful to me in the long run. 
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  • RMJ said:
    Finally got round to looking at my images from New York over the past couple of days using the XT10 and 18-55 lens. I'm partially pleased with the results and will post some images when I get round to it.

    I'm annoyed that I didn't spend more time getting to know the camera before I went. Couple of things I noticed that affected the images I took. I found the dials on the XT10 easy to knock for example, so I ended up moving the drive dial a few times to bracket shooting. I also shot everything in jpg as I was pleased with some test images I took. In hindsight, until I had become comfortable with the in camera processing, I should have shot RAW. 

    Since returning I have had more time with the XT10 and am much more comfortable with it. I'm actually shooting manual alot with it and bought a 35mm f2, which I absolutely love. 

    I'm trying to resist temptation of chopping in and upgrading to an XT20 or XT2. I think I'd benefit from the larger sensor as I tend to crop alot and rarely am happy with my compositions as shot. However, I think the limitations of the XT10 may be helpful to me in the long run. 

    If you want to hit the larger sensor craving, you can get excellent 6x6, 6x7 or 4x5 format cameras for not much money. 

    Digital still hasn't come close to the 8x10 positives I've seen in the past - absolutely breathtaking. Even simple triplet or tessar lenses covered in scratches are absolutely insanely sharp at f/22 or f/30, and at f/11 you get ultra shallow depth of field and still good sharpness. 

    Of course, another reason I've stuck with aps-c is that  asides from getting a well built, comfy, fast camera that is wonderful to use, I've tried plenty of full frame and the improvement is pretty slight - a stop or so.

    And that's if you nail exposure...

    Fuji seems to be working on making "small medium format" with a crop factor of 0.8 the new "full frame" by releasing more affordable medium format cameras. It's not a big sensor, but it probably offers another stop and a bigger sensor is less demanding of lenses. Plus, awesome fuji build and looks and it is a winner... 

    So for me, I'd rather spend less on a camera I love and know that a few years from now I could be rocking something with a bigger sensor than 35mm.
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  • RMJ said: LP
    Finally got round to looking at my images from New York over the past couple of days using the XT10 and 18-55 lens. I'm partially pleased with the results and will post some images when I get round to it.

    I'm annoyed that I didn't spend more time getting to know the camera before I went. Couple of things I noticed that affected the images I took. I found the dials on the XT10 easy to knock for example, so I ended up moving the drive dial a few times to bracket shooting. I also shot everything in jpg as I was pleased with some test images I took. In hindsight, until I had become comfortable with the in camera processing, I should have shot RAW. 

    Since returning I have had more time with the XT10 and am much more comfortable with it. I'm actually shooting manual alot with it and bought a 35mm f2, which I absolutely love. 

    I'm trying to resist temptation of chopping in and upgrading to an XT20 or XT2. I think I'd benefit from the larger sensor as I tend to crop alot and rarely am happy with my compositions as shot. However, I think the limitations of the XT10 may be helpful to me in the long run. 
    The 24mpx of the XT20/XT2 is definitely the sweet spot for apsc. The XT30 is about to be announced next week, so that should see quite a drop in the price of used XT20. Good time to buy one. 

    I love my XT20 and seeing the leaked images and specs of the XT30 has removed any desire to upgrade. No larger EVF and the removal of the Dpad makes me unenthusiastic about the new camera. The 20 is my favourite camera I've ever owned .happy to stick with it. 

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  • GagarynGagaryn Frets: 1546
    RMJ said:
    I think I'd benefit from the larger sensor as I tend to crop alot and rarely am happy with my compositions as shot. 
    A larger sensor isn't going to help you compose. If you find your photos have too much space around them already when using a crop that's likely going to be even worse on full frame assuming you are shooting with a similar focal range.

    Again, assuming a full frame and crop sensor with a similar number of pixels - your cropped area would end up being less pixel dense with correspondingly less detail in it using a full frame - all else being equal. Best bet is to take your time to learn to compose things better. Don't assume the camera is the problem.
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  • boogiemanboogieman Frets: 5871
    edited February 12
    Gagaryn said:
    RMJ said:
    I think I'd benefit from the larger sensor as I tend to crop alot and rarely am happy with my compositions as shot. 
    A larger sensor isn't going to help you compose. If you find your photos have too much space around them already when using a crop that's likely going to be even worse on full frame assuming you are shooting with a similar focal range.

    Again, assuming a full frame and crop sensor with a similar number of pixels - your cropped area would end up being less pixel dense with correspondingly less detail in it using a full frame - all else being equal. Best bet is to take your time to learn to compose things better. Don't assume the camera is the problem.
    Wis’d. Pixel count is massively over-rated. Composition (and decent glass to a lesser extent) count for a lot more in a good shot.

    I’ve started getting my wife interested in photography, she’s using my back up 5D and we share my set of lenses. The first thing I taught her wasn’t anything to do with shutter speeds, f stops or ISO.  I put the camera in auto mode and told her what you see through the viewfinder is what comes out in the picture, imagine what you’re seeing in there is a painting. Move around till what you see is what you want.

    TLDR: Get the framing right and you’re more than halfway to a decent shot. 
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  • On the subject of cropping. Since moving up from the X-T1 (16mp) to the X-T20 (24mp) I have been able to make more use of cropping. Not because of poor composition, but more for adding some reach to lenses such as when photographing birds in our garden. Cropped shots on smaller subjects look fabulous on the 24mp sensor compared to Fuji's older 16mp model. 

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  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 11222
    Don't be under any illusions that a "better" camera will automatically lead to better photos. Much like with music, the end result is 90% user and 10% gear, obvious issues with complete shit gear notwithstanding.

    While I do crop sometimes to get extra effective reach (example below), it's much better to focus on improving your own technique than buying more gear. Obviously that also takes more effort, and also takes time. But it will also come naturally.  I've travelling with a camera for 6 years or so now, and kick myself about how much I would now do differently if I were to repeat old trips. I now shoot maybe 30% the number of frames, but leave with at least as many decent shots (probably more, if anything), and I usually don't even put the camera to my eye until I know exactly how I'm expecting the finished shot to come out after processing. But it's the process of all that that's got me to where I am today, so I can't be mad about it.

    Example of long crop - this was my X-T1 with the 18-135 at the long end, then cropped about half again. It still printed fine at ~18" wide - I have it on the wall. Looking back I also now see that ISO was way too high, and f20 is completely unnecessary. f8 and ISO 200 would've been fine and produced a cleaner image, but this is exactly the sort of thing you learn as you shoot more and more.


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  • RMJRMJ Frets: 1257
    edited February 12
    I may have given the impression that I am completely cack at composition....so will try to explain what I mean with some examples of what I am talking about with regards to large scale crops

    I have two kids who are usually all over the place, meaning one is generally in focus smiling, and the other is being a cock. Where the original composition allows, I may crop the cock child out completely and recompose on the one being sensible. I took the camera out on a walk with the family over the weekend where this happened and ended up cropping a portrait image to a quarter the size of the original composition. It's one of the nicest photos I have of that particular child, who is usually being the photo cock, so it would be a nice one to do a large print of. The extra pixels in that situation would be helpful. 

    In New York I was shooting the Manhatten skyline from a boat with people moving about everywhere on deck. It was also pissing freezing. So I shot wider than I needed in order to compose a decent image later. In some cases this meant recomposing to a portrait image with one building as the subject. Again, the extra pixels would come in handy if I wanted to blow those types of composition up.

    I am in no way under the illusion that a fuller featured camera would make me a better photographer.


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  • RMJRMJ Frets: 1257
    edited February 12
    not sure if this will work from phone but here are a few images I captured from trip. All shot as jpegs (I like black and white). As I said, looking back I think I would have benefitted from learning the camera a bit more before the trip 

    https://imgur.com/Y8cH2mM

    https://imgur.com/qQ9f5C9

    https://imgur.com/FIVYviB

    https://imgur.com/nVO6r5f

    https://imgur.com/4jWDkJc
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  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 11222
    That's a perfectly valid reason for wanting more MPs tbh. You're clearly not just stuck in the more=better camp :)

    I love a couple of those photos, btw. The Rockefeller view is always nice, and a bit unusual to see it in the morning light 
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  • RMJRMJ Frets: 1257
    That's a perfectly valid reason for wanting more MPs tbh. You're clearly not just stuck in the more=better camp :)

    I love a couple of those photos, btw. The Rockefeller view is always nice, and a bit unusual to see it in the morning light 
    Thanks! Yeah top of the rock was amazing. the day before was a write off due to mist but the morning we went up was beautifully clear. Photos would have been better if the sky was more interesting, but hey, we got spectacular views so what more could I ask. 
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  • RMJRMJ Frets: 1257


    Here are a couple of colour jpg images using the classic chrome film simulation. I love that simulation, but didn't realise you could adjust in camera settings for shadows, highlights, sharpness etc.

    https://imgur.com/HVwUpuR

    https://imgur.com/Tfx8guv

    https://imgur.com/aGHIl8m



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  • boogiemanboogieman Frets: 5871
    RMJ said:
    not sure if this will work from phone but here are a few images I captured from trip. All shot as jpegs (I like black and white). As I said, looking back I think I would have benefitted from learning the camera a bit more before the trip 

    https://imgur.com/Y8cH2mM

    https://imgur.com/qQ9f5C9

    https://imgur.com/FIVYviB

    https://imgur.com/nVO6r5f

    https://imgur.com/4jWDkJc
    Some nice pics there. ;)  A couple of them could do with tweaking in terms of contrast and levels (have you got any software to do that?) but you’ve got a decent eye for a shot. Nice job. 
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