Who's going full digital & bringing your gear into the 21st century?

josephdouce

So I'm just starting out with my musical adventure but I've got straight on the digital wagon,

XR18 Desk
G3XN for the for amp modeling and FX
Roland FP-50 
2 Vocal Mics
PA

no cabs
no amps
no big heavy pedal boards
no analog desk

FX for vocals are all on the XR18 and can be toggled from phone, everything all straight into the desk and 2 active 15's for the PA, most inconvenient item is my Roland FP-50 for Keys. Also we're a duo so there's only 2 of us, but the stage looks a little empty sometimes.

I see so many live bands especially older groups with a 5 piece cover bands bringing 

2 guitars each with cabs/amps/pedal board
bass with cab/amp/pedal board
1/2 keys with amp
drums with own mixer
big old analogue desk with separate fx and 1000 mics to mic all the amps

And end up sat thinking, that's a LOT of stuff to set up/tear down, why don't you just shell out on an XR18/X32 RACK and some amp/cab modelling pedal boards, ditch 70% of your gear and gain a ton of versatility and save your back/knees.

So whats your setup, who's old school and who's took the digital plunge?

simonk

We’ve been all modelling for a while now (five piece with two guitars and bass) with a digital desk. So much easier and we’ve never sounded so good. 

Danny1969

Been on a digital desk and IEM's since 2008 (back then a cheap digital desk was £5K so was quite a committed early adaptor )  I wouldn't say they sound as good as a good analog desk with some outboard but I can't argue the advantage of having dynamics on every channel and some reasonable effects without having any outboard at all. 

I have noticed however some bands now have a terrible sound when listened to at the front  in the middle ... purely because the lack of backline amps and wedge monitors onstage now mean anyone listening at the front ... between the PA speakers is basically just listening to a drum kit ..... further back where you can hear the PA speakers is fine but if you want a decent sound in the front middle you now need in fill speakers .... so you cure some problems but create others, such is live

Personally for me, a smallish amp and a pedal board is fine for covering most styles .... Some of the guys I work with aren't on IEM's so no guitar backline at all would be a problem for them. I fancy a Helix but not enough to buy one. 

If you want to you can actually go completely desk and laptop only with no Helix or modeller ... if you route out the guitar and bass channels on the desk to ASIO you can insert you fav Amplitude amp sim in your DAW and the return is processed . Basically you have guitar DI'ed into desk ... that's it . Basically that's the future 

josephdouce

Danny1969 said:

Been on a digital desk and IEM's since 2008 (back then a cheap digital desk was £5K so was quite a committed early adaptor )  I wouldn't say they sound as good as a good analog desk with some outboard but I can't argue the advantage of having dynamics on every channel and some reasonable effects without having any outboard at all. 

I have noticed however some bands now have a terrible sound when listened to at the front  in the middle ... purely because the lack of backline amps and wedge monitors onstage now mean anyone listening at the front ... between the PA speakers is basically just listening to a drum kit ..... further back where you can hear the PA speakers is fine but if you want a decent sound in the front middle you now need in fill speakers .... so you cure some problems but create others, such is live

Personally for me, a smallish amp and a pedal board is fine for covering most styles .... Some of the guys I work with aren't on IEM's so no guitar backline at all would be a problem for them. I fancy a Helix but not enough to buy one. 

If you want to you can actually go completely desk and laptop only with no Helix or modeller ... if you route out the guitar and bass channels on the desk to ASIO you can insert you fav Amplitude amp sim in your DAW and the return is processed . Basically you have guitar DI'ed into desk ... that's it . Basically that's the future 

You can DI guitars on an XR18 or X32 as they have built in amp modellers on the FX rack but since there are only 4 FX racks gets a bit tight with verb, multi band compressor, amp model, so I use the pedal board for now. I can see digital desks getting 10+ FX slots soon so everyone can just DI.

Roland

I’ve been digital for years. Currently using an AxeFX. This year we moved to a digital XR18 desk too.

maltingsaudio

It comes down to whatever works for you and the sound you want to give to your audience. The younger performers of today won’t have gone through the pain and glory of that which older ones have. Older performers were the “beta testers” of today’s equipment!

Oh oh the joys of doing an acoustic gig with the HH Ma100 4channel PA amp and a pair of 1x12 cabinets ... we were gods! ( and the fee was the same as today!)

josephdouce

I'm one of those people I'm 28 and very tech savvy. I only started this last year 18 months ago I couldn't play any instruments, never touched a desk. So coming into this I didn't have the analogue experience to hold me back. Never even owned an amp/cab.

Getting the best sound out of the most compact, good value and modern gear really appealed to me, my gear is by no means cheap but I haven't gone crazy. When I started looking at amps and cabs I was thinking, why can't I plug direct into the desk? When I realized I could I made it my mission to keep my gear as small and portable as possible and it makes the whole experience a lot more pleasant.

josephdouce

Roland said:

I’ve been digital for years. Currently using an AxeFX. This year we moved to a digital XR18 desk too.

The XR18 is an absolute revolution the price point made it accessible but the learning curve is somewhat steep, people aren't used to having a gate, comp, PEQ on every channel, unlimited routing options, 6 aux's 4 FX out of the box, an analogue at the same price point might have 1 FX bus. You can pick up an X32 Rack for £600 now!!!!

maltingsaudio

 people aren't used to having a gate, comp, PEQ on every channel, unlimited routing options, 6 aux's 4 FX out of the box, 

The problem with digital vs analogue right there. Just because you have it available doesn’t mean you’ve got to use it especially if you don’t know why your using it!

kennedydream1980

Other than the drums we are all digital in my band. I’m trying to persuade the drummer to gig his Roland kit primarily for the reasons stated above by @Danny1969

Roland

maltingsaudio said:

 people aren't used to having a gate, comp, PEQ on every channel, unlimited routing options, 6 aux's 4 FX out of the box, 

The problem with digital vs analogue right there. Just because you have it available doesn’t mean you’ve got to use it especially if you don’t know why your using it!

So true. With our XR18 we don’t use any gates, comps etc. They’re just not necessary.

The only feature I use is EQ on the Aux channel which feeds my IEMs. If I didn’t warm them up a bit then I would over compensate with the guitar’s tone control.

Caffeine_Vampire

I’m old school but wondering how long I can continue. My gear seems to be putting weight on...

Keefy

I did the digital thing at the wrong time, i.e. late 90s when it was crap! I'm all for using less kit where possible, and I only have 1 heavy amp (which I don't always use) so the weight benefit of going digital is somewhat lost on me.

p90fool

I go digital every two or three years and then straight back again after a handful of gigs. 

There are still things only real amps can do, but if your playing style doesn't involve them, fill your boots, if not your van. 

Danny1969

Roland said:

maltingsaudio said:

 people aren't used to having a gate, comp, PEQ on every channel, unlimited routing options, 6 aux's 4 FX out of the box, 

The problem with digital vs analogue right there. Just because you have it available doesn’t mean you’ve got to use it especially if you don’t know why your using it!

So true. With our XR18 we don’t use any gates, comps etc. They’re just not necessary.

The only feature I use is EQ on the Aux channel which feeds my IEMs. If I didn’t warm them up a bit then I would over compensate with the guitar’s tone control.

Careful use of the dynamics on the kick drum channel and bass guitar channel will make both more consistent and will also make life easier for your PA system. This is why you can put a CD very loud  through a set of small speakers with out destroying them yet try the same with an unprocessed band ant your need some pretty beefy drivers to cope with the massive transients. I gate the kick as well but no other drums 
I always use compression on vocals .... it helps keep the vocal consistent in level which means it sits in the mix better without having to be overly loud. 

Next gig try a gentle 3:1 ratio on the vocals, medium attack speed and lower the threshold until you see about 3dB of gain reduction on the loudest sung parts.  That's my go to starting point.  For the kick i compress a lot harder ..  I'm generally see'ing 6 or 7dB with a faster attack and slow release 

IPad mix facility and dynamics are the 2 things I miss most when I'm using an analog desk, although I used a new analog Yamaha one the other day and that had comressors on every channel which was nice !

josephdouce

maltingsaudio said:

 people aren't used to having a gate, comp, PEQ on every channel, unlimited routing options, 6 aux's 4 FX out of the box, 

The problem with digital vs analogue right there. Just because you have it available doesn’t mean you’ve got to use it especially if you don’t know why your using it!

But if you do know you can vastly improve your sound. They are extremely useful if you know what you're doing, but doesn't mean you need to use them all on every channel. Same as above I EQ and Comp Vocals, Gate and EQ on the Kick. I also put a Multiband Compressor on the Main LR.

Lebarque

Not until digital sounds as good as valves/analogue. Tin hat on!

John_P

I’m pretty much digital - fractal ax8 for most gigs and I mix through an xr18 or x32.  If I do a rare gig with my duo with just plug in an play with backing on an iPad.  
Very different playing with a band though where unless everyone has in ears or monitors we need to hear each other over the drums and finding a drummer willing to use an electric kit and everyone with in ears is a rare unless you form with that in mind so I still use an amp 

If someone already has a setup they are happy with then there’s no need to move over to digital and spend more on gear - especially as some older gear is worth very little compared to the old price. Maybe when gear like desks need replacing make the switch but I can see a use for acoustic drums and small amps with a vocal PA and little analogue desk - I sometimes play with bands like that and it’s quick and easy and hassle free to just enjoy playing.  

Keefy

Lebarque said:

Not until digital sounds as good as valves/analogue. Tin hat on!

I always wear my tin foil hat when I'm surfing the worldwide interweb.

tone1

I’m still going the other way.... I’d even like to ditch my Strymon Flint for something analogue like the Crazy tube circuits white whale Reverb/Trem 

simonk

Danny1969 said:

...

I have noticed however some bands now have a terrible sound when listened to at the front  in the middle ... purely because the lack of backline amps and wedge monitors onstage now mean anyone listening at the front ... between the PA speakers is basically just listening to a drum kit ..... further back where you can hear the PA speakers is fine but if you want a decent sound in the front middle you now need in fill speakers .... so you cure some problems but create others, such is live

...

Very true and why I think IEM only setups in small venues can be a bit risky. We rely on our individual monitors to fill out the area close to the stage in lieu of actual amps and it works well.

For the sake of balance I’d also add that catching an amp on axis close to the stage can be equally detrimental to a decent, balanced sound.