Is Jeff Beck the most innovative guitarist ever?

BigLicks67

What about Davey Graham, everybody using DADGAD these days probably have him to thank for it.
Michael Hedges transformed acoustic steel string playing in the 80's/90's.
For Rock music Jimi basically pioneered the use of FX pedals that we see in abundance today, so that makes him innovative.
As for Jeff Beck a talented guitarist no doubt, but innovative not so much and his influence seems particularly limited.

Fretwired

Philly_Q said:

Fretwired said:

You can get an album by Jan Akkerman recorded in the 1960s and he's shredding like Van Halen. People didn't know what to think of it so it bombed. The world was into blues rock. In fairness Jan learnt this from two brothers from Indonesia who gave him guitar lessons - there are some videos of them from the late 50s. 

The Van Halens are brothers born in the Netherlands and their mother's from Indonesia....

Coincidence, or....?

You may have a valid point. The Tielman Brothers were massive in the Netherlands, Belgium and even Germany so EvH would have seen them on TV as a kid. They were active in the 1950s through to around 2010 when the last brother died. They played Indo Rock ... Jan Akkerman told me that they had a major influence on him and he took guitar lessons for a while from the older brother who basically taught him to shred. Andy Tielman was a guitar hero ...

Unfortunately there's no footage of them playing live only a couple of mimed TV shows which are more about 'showmanship' than music.

sweepy

BigLicks67 said:

What about Davey Graham, everybody using DADGAD these days probably have him to thank for it.
Michael Hedges transformed acoustic steel string playing in the 80's/90's.
For Rock music Jimi basically pioneered the use of FX pedals that we see in abundance today, so that makes him innovative.
As for Jeff Beck a talented guitarist no doubt, but innovative not so much and his influence seems particularly limited.

Limited !, seriously ? Guitarists have been borrowing from him extensively, probably a Holdsworth even more so tbh. 

blobb

you can't talk about innovation in guitar playing without mentioning Fred Frith. In my opinion.

Gassage

I would be hard pressed to name a more innovative player than the great Mr Adrian Belew.

MrBump

2019 and we're debating Beck vs Hendrix...

Fretwired

MrBump said:

2019 and we're debating Beck vs Hendrix...

True. Had Hendrix not died would we still b talking about him as much? I'm a fan and have copies of his main studio albums. However, guitar playing has moved on and I'm not sure I'd call him the best (he still tends to top polls).

And in terms of innovation what about Fripp? His Frippertronics was groundbreaking - most people didn't like it but his clever use of tape machines to create ambient soundscapes and his sustained guitar sound were certainly innovative.

What about Les Paul? Multitracked guitars, the Gibson Les Paul and he was a mean guitar player.

And George Van Eps who was the father of the 7 string guitar - it allowed him to play basslines and chords at the same time.

Plus the Edge and Andy Summers who pioneered the use of FX to create a dense guitar sound to mask the fact they were in bands with bass, drums, guitar and a singer.

Pat Metheny and his use of guitar synth.

axisus

Fretwired said:

True. Had Hendrix not died would we still b talking about him as much? I'm a fan and have copies of his main studio albums. However, guitar playing has moved on and I'm not sure I'd call him the best 

Hendrix isn't 'the best', he's the one who moved electric guitar forward into a whole new dimension, and that is why he is still revered (by those who understand his role in guitar history). 

Jalapeno

ourmaninthenorth said:

Django.

Wis'd, also Charlie Christian (and Barney Kessel, who was around at the same time)

Creed_Clicks

I suppose it depends on what part of the guitar spectrum you want to be on. While I appreciate Vai's technical ability, and Satriani etc, they do nothing for me, but I'd agree that they were/are innovative guitarists and I'd love to be able to shred like them sometimes.

Recently, I'm on an Alan Sparhawk buzz because I like what he does with effects and a guitar to create some kind of sonic landscape, especially live. Is it innovative? Probably not, as he's strumming most of the time. But his approach, to me, is innovative. Maybe he's more influential than innovative to me.

Influential V innovative. Now that's another thing...

Moe_Zambeek

I like a bit of Beck now and then but his output is patchy. Innovative in some ways I guess but not in an out-there way. Loud Hailer is a pretty good album for a pensioner to make if you don’t listen too hard to the lyrics.

I’d agree with the Belew suggestion, Alan Holdsworth might also have been very innovative but I’ve never been able to listen to much he’s done...

Henry Kaiser has done some ‘innovative’ things too  

Also how about David Torn and Reeves Gabrels?

Fretwired

axisus said:

Hendrix isn't 'the best', he's the one who moved electric guitar forward into a whole new dimension, and that is why he is still revered (by those who understand his role in guitar history). 

That's not what a lot of players and mags say - Hendrix is thought of as the 'best' guitarist ever. Here's a Rolling Stone press release. And if I recall Hendrix has won a number of Guitarist mag polls over the years. All subjective of course.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-jimihendrix/rolling-stone-names-hendrix-best-guitarist-ever-idUSTRE7AM0CU20111123

And a Louder poll:

https://www.loudersound.com/news/jimi-hendrix-voted-greatest-guitarist-of-all-time

https://www.loudersound.com/features/the-50-greatest-guitarists-of-all-time

ourmaninthenorth

Jalapeno said:

ourmaninthenorth said:

Django.

Wis'd, also Charlie Christian (and Barney Kessel, who was around at the same time)

Agreed.

With notable mention of those two other game changers, messrs Montgomery and Pass. 

blobb

Moe_Zambeek said:

I like a bit of Beck now and then but his output is patchy. Innovative in some ways I guess but not in an out-there way. Loud Hailer is a pretty good album for a pensioner to make if you don’t listen too hard to the lyrics.

I’d agree with the Belew suggestion, Alan Holdsworth might also have been very innovative but I’ve never been able to listen to much he’s done...

Henry Kaiser has done some ‘innovative’ things too  

Also how about David Torn and Reeves Gabrels?

Kaiser, Frith, Richard Thomson and John French from the Magic Band did a couple of interesting albums.

ArchtopDave

blobb said:

you can't talk about innovation in guitar playing without mentioning Fred Frith. In my opinion.

Useless fact of the day.... I was at Uni the same time as Fred Frith. Same college, and, in first year, lived in the room next door but one to him. I went to the first Henry Cow gig.

ICBM

Fretwired said:

Plus the Edge

It's typical for 'good' guitarists not to rate him, but Dave Evans is a *very* innovative player - no-one was playing like him when U2 started, and very few are even now.

monquixote

ICBM said:

Fretwired said:

Plus the Edge

It's typical for 'good' guitarists not to rate him, but Dave Evans is a *very* innovative player - no-one was playing like him when U2 started, and very few are even now.

He gets a million innovation points for inventing the dotted 8th delay thing but minus one million for inspiring every Christian rock band ever.

blobb

ArchtopDave said:

blobb said:

you can't talk about innovation in guitar playing without mentioning Fred Frith. In my opinion.

Useless fact of the day.... I was at Uni the same time as Fred Frith. Same college, and, in first year, lived in the room next door but one to him. I went to the first Henry Cow gig.

How much would have I loved to been at that gig? Ah well, just for fun, here's a link to the articles he wrote for NME in 1974, Great Rock Solos Of Our Time:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pylk33c96br4q6x/Fred Frith - NME Articles.pdf?dl=0&fbclid=IwAR0-Di3m4BxaPaD0olDuWKKoK0lQx2uw_90s0q9Ko2r5cCozTJnyZGTU8ZQ

...guess what? Jeff Beck is one of 'em. Enjoy.

stratcat

Why do people always have to consider someone "the best". Music is an art form, it'll speak to people differently and differently at different times of their life or even times of day.
It's like saying which colour is best, you might like red but I like fluorescent dayglo yellow, it doesn't mean my choice is wrong.
I can appreciate many guitarists for their contribution to the art form. "most innovative"? who cares? Just be glad that all these people have made music that is worth listening to.
Also consider that it's a mark of their artistic endeavour that people are still listening to and talking about some of these guitarists. There are many bands, guitarists and musicians in general that just sink into obscurity after a brief flirt with success. To have any longevity in the music industry is truly remarkable.

andy_k

watched the doc on bbc4 the other night, all the best guitarists agree--Jeffs the best, 
the original question was -is he the most innovative?, and I think I'd say, yes, still coming out with things that haven't been heard before (Pull it-from Loudhailer??), but there's always Buckethead as a close second IMHO.