Were Dokken or Ratt ever big in the UK ?

ICBM

To be fair, I did quite like what I've heard of George Lynch's playing. Just couldn't stand the rest...

bigjon

I have the Lynch Mob album 'Wicked Sensation' - I think it's great - especially the (stadium-rock-delayed) guitar tone

SimonC

SidNewton said:

They aren't going to be remembered as great bands because well, they weren't and their style of rock has become irrelevant. That said, George Lynch was and remains shit hot. 

Don't really understand this term as applied to music.

There's good music and not so good music in all genres.  What do you mean by "irrelevant"?

Neil

stonevibe said:

I thought this music sucked ass at the time.

I was a Jane's Addiction (closest I can think of in terms of rawk) , Dinosaur Jr, Pixies fan etc

Guess what?

It still sucks.

Definitely.

Wisdom awarded. 

guitarfishbay

I've got the first 5 Dokken albums I think, got them in one of those cheap box sets a while back.  Yeah it is a huge big slab of cheese but Lynch's lead work is awesome.  IMO he had much more interesting phrasing and vibrato than most other shredders of the time.  Plus his tone was incredible on some tracks.

'The Hunter' is probably my favourite solo and tone of his.  The guitar is just screaming.  Solo at 2:10

Moltisanti

i agree the tone on the solo is awesome, and it very tasteful for that period. The video on the other hand...

This is the one i've been singing all week, and to be fair the solo is cool , but again the video is woeful

Lodious

I've always quite liked George Lynch, he always comes across as a nice guy when interviewed, and he's a bit more interesting than your average shredder.

As for the videos, I would imagine George got laid enough to more than compensate for any retrospective ridicule on a guitar internet forum :-)

SidNewton

SimonC said:

SidNewton said:

They aren't going to be remembered as great bands because well, they weren't and their style of rock has become irrelevant. That said, George Lynch was and remains shit hot. 

Don't really understand this term as applied to music.

There's good music and not so good music in all genres.  What do you mean by "irrelevant"?

Whether it's good or not has nothing to do with it. That style of music is very much of it's time. It is not timeless in the same way as The Beatles for example. That style of music died with the arrival of grunge, there's no disputing that. It ceased to be relevant at that time and remains so. If it were then it would be selling in large numbers and influencing the next generation of bands. It isn't and won't so is therefore irrelevant. Doesn't mean you shouldn't listen to it if that's your thing.

SimonC

So music is only "relevant" if it is selling in large numbers?..........interesting

SidNewton

SimonC said:

So music is only "relevant" if it is selling in large numbers?..........interesting

You've missed the point completely. As I said, It isn't influencing the next generation of bands, So you explain to me how it's relevant?

r_peggio

I'm sure it's probably still influencing some bands, particularly in guitar solo heavy genres like todays metal.  Just because there aren't bands that sound exactly like Motley Cru any more doesn't mean people don't listen to them and apply it to their own style.

SimonC

How have I missed the point?

That is what you stated : "If it were then it would be selling in large numbers"

I'm not really interested in arguing or labouring the point,but I just struggle with the concept of being "relevant" or "irrelevant" when discussing music.

The issue of musical influence is really an evolutionary thing. I'm sure the likes of Ratt and Dokken influenced other bands during their time, who went on to influence others over time etc which can be traced to curent music.

Would you describe Mozart as irrelevant?

SidNewton

I'm not trying to start an argument Simon. You asked a question, I answered it. We don't have to agree, It's a discussion forum and we're both entitled to an opinion.

As regards my statement about 'selling in large numbers' you pick one part of a larger comment.

You say music is an evolutionary thing but as we all know evolution sometimes comes to a dead end. That's pretty much how I view this style of rock. That said, I do admire George Lynch as a guitarist. I wish I had half the ability he does.

Finally, I would never compare Ratt and Dokken to Mozart. People still buy, listen to and analyse his work because his music is of such a high quality. I don't think any hair metal band will ever be viewed in quite the same way.

daveyh

SidNewton said:

That style of music died with the arrival of grunge, there's no disputing that. It ceased to be relevant at that time and remains so. If it were then it would be selling in large numbers and influencing the next generation of bands. It isn't and won't so is therefore irrelevant. Doesn't mean you shouldn't listen to it if that's your thing.

Sorry, but that's not at all true, your just displaying your own prejudice on this one. Grunge as movement was pretty limited in it's duration, as all musical trends are. If you want to see the influence in the next generation of bands look at what's going on in Scandinavia, or look at bands like Black Veil Brides or Falling in Reverse, or bands like Knock Out Kaine from the UK.

Sambostar

I don't know how you could not like Lynch and Demartini from this era.  Cranked JMP amps, alnico humbuckers and talent and great playing.  It has it all.  It wasn't glam, it was the last era of rock n roll but it just didn't appeal to the masses in the UK.  In comparison all this ceramic pickup, digital technical, modern stuff just sounds toneless and horrendous.  As for influence, there are loads of folks influenced by Demartini and Lynch.  How they are irrelevant I fail to understand.  Even the format and sounds from Out of the Cellar, although a completely different form of music are similar to GNR appetite.  Whether it directly influenced them or whether that was the given format of the day, it still rubbed off.  Eg. Scene of the Crime and Sweet Child o 'Mine.  You're in Trouble and Nightrain.  She Wants Money and It's so Easy.  Even of the chords progressions are not identical, the feel and vibe of the sounds is very similar. Definitely reckon there was an influence there, even if only indirectly from a few ideas from a tech in the studio.

horse

'Relevant to what?' is probably the gap leading to disagreement. I'm not sure that 'relevant' on its own really means much, or at least can be taken to mean different things?

Dave_Mc

Kerpunk said:

Dave_Mc said:

Kerpunk said:

There was a guy on the music radar forums who mentioned RATT in every other post.

Are you sure that wasn't me?

I think your better placed to answer that than me :P

I dunno, I might not be real >:D<

Kerpunk

daveyh said:

SidNewton said:

That style of music died with the arrival of grunge, there's no disputing that. It ceased to be relevant at that time and remains so. If it were then it would be selling in large numbers and influencing the next generation of bands. It isn't and won't so is therefore irrelevant. Doesn't mean you shouldn't listen to it if that's your thing.

Sorry, but that's not at all true, your just displaying your own prejudice on this one. Grunge as movement was pretty limited in it's duration, as all musical trends are. If you want to see the influence in the next generation of bands look at what's going on in Scandinavia, or look at bands like Black Veil Brides or Falling in Reverse, or bands like Knock Out Kaine from the UK.

I agree with Sid. The world wouldn't be much different musically if hair metal never existed the same can't be said for punk or original rock n roll for example.

Rock n Roll, Punk, Grunge took music away from the music elite (rock n roll let anyone write a song, punk killed prog rock and grunge killed hair metal) and put it the hands of normal people. 

Daveyh, 

Those bands you mention arn't gonna inspire people like The Rolling Stones, The Clash or Nirvana did are they no matter how good they are.

Relevance is nothing to do with quality however.

Jalapeno

Dave_Mc said:

Kerpunk said:

Dave_Mc said:

Kerpunk said:

There was a guy on the music radar forums who mentioned RATT in every other post.

Are you sure that wasn't me?

I think your better placed to answer that than me :P

I dunno, I might not be real >:D<

Best bit of that saga was that Bradders got the Admins to replace 'RATT' with 'Unspeakably bad music' every time somebody tried to mention them

Kerpunk

I forgot about that! That was brilliant.