Pod HD500x into Matrix GT1000FX (Pod HD and power amp discussion)

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  • monquixotemonquixote Frets: 17485
    tFB Trader
    I gigged with an Old POD into PA for years and it sounded fine out front, but didn't really "feel" like a proper amp.

    What about something like a Stonehead?
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  • recently saw a couple of old boys jamming with a bassist, both guitars were going thru pods thru a modest pa, sounded beautiful, made me question the whole amp thing. previously ive played gigged  thru a pod direct into pa and although the tones sounded ok it didn't feel right- a mojo thing maybe, or just hearing it thru monitors.  although now I gig through amps I go to an occasional jam and for convenience/laziness I sometimes plug into a behringer v amp, a cheap nasty little thing I picked up used for £20 but actually sounds not too bad sometimes.
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  • The place we've moved to has a pair of Mackie SRM450s I think.  We can definitely get the vocals loud enough now but I've not tried putting anything else through there too.  Regardless I'm ok with bringing my cab. 


    What about something like a Stonehead?

    Not easy to try one of those plus I'd still need to bring my traditional pedalboard anyway.

    Going to a lighter amp head plus FX unit in 4CM is also something I want to avoid.  Unless the amp is midi (neither of mine are without getting additional gear which is the opposite of what I want to do) I don't really gain anything switching wise.  Most of my changes are pretty simple - channel change + 1 FX change.  Sometimes I switch a TS on too, but I don't really think it matters if the TS comes on a fraction after the change because the meat of the tone is basically correct already at the channel change.  I used to use a GT8 in 4CM and I didn't think it was worth doing things that way - most changes were still two switches anyway.

    I kind of feel like an all or nothing approach suits me best.  Either a digital rig that is one unit + power amp, or a regular rig.  My experience of mixing the two frustrated me with the limitations of each.
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  • geepers0677geepers0677 Frets: 119
    I used a POD XT pro into a power amp in a rack mounted rig for a while - was huge. Sounded so good. I have the POD HD500x now and it goes straight to PA, but I also run a line into an FR amp for monitoring so it still feels like backline. No regrets. 

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  • EricTheWearyEricTheWeary Frets: 16253
    Country guitarist Pete Anderson ( he has a couple of Reverend Sig model guitars) uses original kidney bean PODS into power amps into guitar speakers. Some of the Line 6 models were based on his vintage Fenders so it's not like he doesn't own the 'real thing' but prefers the versatility of PODS. For example, he can use the same model but with different eq for different songs which mirrors the recording process which would have been a valve amp that was manually tweaked.
    Tipton is a small fishing village in the borough of Sandwell. 
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  • drwiddlydrwiddly Frets: 911
    Before I got my Axe Ultra I used a Digitech GSP1101 into a Rocktron V300 power amp and it sounded great in a loud, heavyish band doing pub gigs. Other guitarist using a Prophesy then an Axe II into a VHT 2:90 and it kept up with no problems.

    The 5150 model on the GSP is really good and the Mesa and Carvin Legacy models aren't far behind. I kept the rig as a back up (I use it with a JMP-1 in the loop for variety). I plugged in the other day and I was surprised at how good it sounded after using the Ultra. I'd still be happy to gig with it.
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  • DodgeDodge Frets: 1430
    How about something like an AMT Legend S2 / R2 + Zoom MS-70CDR into the power amp and cab rig?
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  • guitarfishbayguitarfishbay Frets: 7953
    Well last night I tried out the Pod HD500x in to Matrix GT1000FX setup for the first time, at home.  I tried it through an EVH 4x12 and a Mesa Rectifier 2x12.  I then realised I could run both at the same time from the Matrix, which I've never tried before due to there being an ohmage mismatch.  So that was fun!

    Initial reports are:

    Switches are nice on the Pod, lights are nice, I'm pretty glad I got the X version over the standard just based on that.  Don't really like the wah/volume pedal sweep too much but the fact I can now set a minimum sweep probably makes up for it as I use a volume pedal a fair bit.

    I decided to see how far I could get without reading the manual and within a few minutes I'd worked out how to program and save patches, how to edit them, and how to assign effects to foot switches, which is basically all I'll need to do.  So as far as using it as a standalone processor goes it seems to be quite easy, and a huge amount easier than the Boss GT8 I had previously (I had to keep a .pdf of the manual saved on my phone for reference, in fairness I was using that unit in 4CM).  Maybe it is a faff to use the HD500x in 4CM with an amp but I don't intend to do that.

    Soundwise, hmm...  So it is missing that interesting top end complexity/detail that good valve amps have.  However I pretty much feel the same way about my Ironheart and I really like that amp.  The sounds are decent but they feel like simple versions of amp sounds.  As expected most of the amps I won't bother using at all, a quick flick through last night and so far I only like the Soldano Crunch, Engl, Mesa (but it needs a bit of post EQ or else it sounds like a caricature of red/modern), AC30 (but it doesn't sound like an AC30, having owned one) and I think the Blackface.  I'm generally using the preamp versions of sims with cabs off, haven't tried experimenting with the full sims minus the cabs yet to see if that improves things.

    FX wise there is more in this unit than I'll use, I don't think I'm in danger of running out of processing power.  I've only really used the screamer, gate, delay and reverbs so far and they've been sounding good.  I only use delay in a band setting so I will dial that in at band volume at the next opportunity.

    There is a small gap when changing patches but most of the time I'll be within the same patch so I don't think it will affect me.  Switching effects on/off in the same patch seems to be smooth.

    I guess I'll need some time and several rehearsals to see if I like it in a band situation but first night impressions are positive.
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  • Drew_TNBDDrew_TNBD Frets: 22445
    Interesting. Let us know how you get on.

    I spent this weekend playing my Axe FX through the FX return of my Diezel, and setting it all up for 4-cable method. It works pretty damn well I have to say.

    I have realized that with my particular setup, I can make do with turning things on one at a time for the most part. There are three moments in two songs where I would need to change the amp and effects at the exact same time, so basically three presets. The rest of the time I can live in a single preset.
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  • PVO_DavePVO_Dave Frets: 2364
    I had a POD 500 HD live rig for a while, I setup a bunch of clean and dirty profiles without the cabs and ran them through a Tech 21 Power Engine, great for a live setup, really gave you the amp in the room feeling, the only thing I struggled with was getting the clean sounds as loud as the distorted sims. Could never get on with it from a recording point of view though, have sold the lot now and bought a Kemper and FRFR solution :)

    Here was my live rig for a while:
    image

    A solid investment at the time was also some glow in the dark tape so you can mark out what button does where for stage / rehearsal use :)

    Dave.
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  • digitalscreamdigitalscream Frets: 26458
    My advice would be to book a couple of hours at your rehearsal room just for yourself to get all your patches in the right ballpark at proper band volume. That's what I did with my Eleven Rack (back-to-back with my Jet City amp), and it made a huge difference compared with just doing it at home. Some of my tones were so close to my Jet City that nobody could distinguish between the two.
    <space for hire>
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  • guitarfishbayguitarfishbay Frets: 7953
    edited May 2014
    So I had a chance to install the edit software last night.  I found this much quicker and easier to use than programming on the unit itself, and the fact I can still leave it all plugged in to my poweramp/cab means I'll probably take my laptop with me the first time I set up my patches at band volume.

    New discoveries:

    - Full amp profiles seem to sound better than just using the preamp profiles in to the Matrix and Mesa 2x12 (cab sims are off either way).  You get access to some different parameters when using the full profile such as master volume, sag, bias - these seem pretty useful.

    - The screamer model seems to put amps in to instant Djent mode.  I'm used to using a Visual Sound 808 which from the A/B tests I've heard is smoother sounding than a regular tube screamer.  Neither my Bad Monkey or SD1 (which are both less smooth) do this to my real amps though, or at least it isn't as pronounced at default settings.  The solution for me seems to be the Tube Drive, which doesn't make amps sound as angry as the L6 screamer.

    - I found this guide, which I've picked up a few operational tips from.  http://www.foobazaar.com/podhd/toneGuide/

    Our other guitarist came round to track some parts last night and he seemed pretty impressed with the HD/Matrix setup.  Right now I don't see myself recording this setup, but I'm open to the concept of it being as good/better than my Ironheart for use in a band situation all things considered (practicality and tone).

    If anything it is just increasing my GAS for a Kemper/Axe because I'm pretty certain I would want to record those...  I'm trying to have less money invested in gear though!  

    My advice would be to book a couple of hours at your rehearsal room just for yourself to get all your patches in the right ballpark at proper band volume. That's what I did with my Eleven Rack (back-to-back with my Jet City amp), and it made a huge difference compared with just doing it at home. Some of my tones were so close to my Jet City that nobody could distinguish between the two.

    Yeah I do think this is the way to go.


    PVO_Dave said:

    A solid investment at the time was also some glow in the dark tape so you can mark out what button does where for stage / rehearsal use :)


    I am Mr Tape.  My regular pedalboard is colour coded with electrical tape so I can set it up without having to look round the back in poor lighting.  As soon as I'm settled with my patches I'm planning to tape it. 

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  • guitarfishbayguitarfishbay Frets: 7953
    edited July 2014
    OK.  First rehearsal with the Pod HD500x and Matrix GT1000FX.

    image

    I have gone for a Boschma 2U shallow rack, bought from Thomann.  I had a pretty shoddy time with the first Boschma I bought from a UK retailer - they were great about taking it back with no hassle but whoever passed that thing for QC had pretty low standards IMO.  (as per this thread ( http://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/16691/rack-bags-worth-it-or-are-they-just-false-economy-vs-getting-a-bigger-moulded-case#latest )

    Weight and Size

    It is hard to argue with the HD500x in the Line 6 carry bag and the 2U Boschma vs a PT2 hard case and 100 watt valve head.  The Boschma has a good thick handle and I've bought a blank panel to put on the bottom slot of the rack in order to be able to use the floor of the case to carry stuff.  Right now I have the Matrix power lead (with plastic prong protector fitted for transit!) and there is still enough space for guitar cabling.  This could feasibly make the guitar, Pod, Power amp, and cables all do-able with one trip since the Pod bag has a shoulder strap.  Not sure if I want to start putting in cables without some kind of protectors on or if I'm being overly worried about it.  I picked up the wooden trolley from Aldi for £12.99 this week.

    In Use (patch and lag)

    At home I sorted out the switching of my patches, based on the rhythm patch I created in a hurry last week when I had to use the Pod and an EHX Magnum to get me through rehearsal (forgot my amp! what an idiot!).  I copied my basic rhythm patch and created one that works for almost all songs (with footswitchable solo boost, delay, and reverb) and one that covers the spacier stuff (swapped the delay and reverb for two delays with different settings, and a footswitchable gate so I can turn it off for one of our outros).  This means that when I'm on my gain patches I have zero switching lag.  Good times!  However, when I switch to my clean and back I do get a bit of switching lag.  Fortunately I mostly work with my volume pedal in this band so for now it isn't much of an issue.  I'm wondering if for those songs I can footswitch between the clean amp and my high gain amp - I think it might work slot wise.

    Sound

    So first thing I noticed was that the EQ on my patches needed sorting again, easily done.

    I'm using the full amp models with the cabs turned off.  The Rectifier sim boosted with the tube driver for all my distortion and the standard Fender one for my cleans.  The cleans seem ok, they're missing the upper end detail of the Roadster's cleans but I reckon they're as good if not better than the Ironheart's cleans.  Dirt wise it doesn't really sound like a Rectifier to me, but it does sound decent for tight-ish high gain rhythm.  Our singer commented that it sounded 'too clean', by that I think he meant bright and lacking saturation.  I dialed back the presence and mids slightly plus added a little more gain from the Tube Driver (sounds better than the TS to me) and he seemed happy.  It felt ok to play by that point and I just got on with it.  Being able to switch multiple things with one switch is really handy, as is being able to set a minimum value for the volume pedal.

    So far it is feeling a little stiff and the tone is less complex than when using my Roadster.  This isn't necessarily a bad thing since I play the lead parts in this band - a slightly stiffer and simpler tone works well for me.  Don't get me wrong, you don't need to put a gun to my head for me to say the Roadster is better, but I'm more concerned about getting stuff done than I am about pleasing my own inner gear nerd when it comes to rehearsal.

    Matrix Volume

    Volume wise definitely loud enough using it with one side in to my 8 ohm Mesa 2x12.  But out of curiosity I tried it bridged in the second half of practice and unless I'm hearing things (this was very much a get on with it session rather than a tone finding session) I thought it sounded way better bridged.  Felt more ballsy and thicker.  I'm not sure at what point I need to worry about blowing a speaker, I don't think I could hear speaker breakup going on.  I guess I need to do more research on that.

    Conclusion

    Need to use it again at another rehearsal but I could see myself selling my Ironheart and just keeping the Roadster.  The Pod + Matrix in their respective cases weighs less and is smaller than the Ironheart as a backup solution plus it makes rehearsals easier and also would serve as a compact gigging rig if we ever had to car pool and cab share to make a gig viable.  If I'm driving myself and don't have to pick anyone up I still think there is no beating the Roadster through a Mesa cab for my tastes.
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  • Drew_TNBDDrew_TNBD Frets: 22445
    "I'm more concerned about getting stuff done than I am about pleasing my own inner gear nerd when it comes to rehearsal."

    Heard that! I'm hooking up with Clarky next week to use his Matrix and Axe FX II at practice levels, and so I can dial in some presets. But I'm still a little reluctant to go entirely Axe FX within my band. There is just something really satisfying about amp+pedalboard that I don't think can be beaten.
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  • guitarfishbayguitarfishbay Frets: 7953
    I'd really love to get an Axe.  My EVH cab is going tonight, going to list my Telecaster next week.  I reckon I could swing a s/h Axe when all that goes but part of me thinks I should hold that thought for a while yet.

    I'm nearly done mixing a track where I used the Roadster plus IRs and nobody has noticed a thing.  It definitely sounds better than using Lecto/Amplitube, plus gives me a fair bit of flexibility which was needed to get the overdubs sounding right (I changed the original IR to one of the same cab, different mic).  So in that respect I don't know if I need an Axe for recording right this minute.  

    I'd love one and I would utilise the extra options - I've always been really impressed with the 5150 Axe FX clips for starters, but I don't need them.  FX wise though I'm not really sure what I'd gain from the Axe for recording, I've already got various Waves/Fabfilter plugs and Valhalla Reverbs, I've never felt like I needed more modulation/delay/reverb options.   Well that is a lie I want Shimmer, but Room and Vintage Verb cover pretty much everything I actually need plus H delay and stock logic delays cover me there...

    For rehearsals the Pod setup I have is smaller than the Axe setup would be, not by much, but it is.

    The main thing that would make me get an Axe is if I felt it was enough better than the Pod through the Matrix that I felt playing real amps wasn't worth the trade-off any more.  And I don't know anyone with an Axe locally so I guess until I do (or I buy one myself) I just won't know the answer to that question.  

    It is just so much cash... though from chatting to people who've bought and sold Axe FX rigs it sounds like having cash in an Axe rig makes more sense than a big amp head right now if flexibility (i.e. ability to liquidise without getting a crap deal on price) is a concern.
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