I need help with drum tracks....

paulmapp8306

Because Im getting nowhere.

Its OK if I just want to lay down some stock loops and fills to create a song to - but when I have a song in my head Im working on - and it needs quite specific drum stuff Im lost.  I can hear what I want in my head, just cant get it into the DAW.

Just spent 2 hours recording an intro - about a minute, on synths, bass, guitar no problem, then another 2 hours to get about 4 bars of "not what I wanted" drums.

I dont play drums, and have no kit to play in - so Its either use ready made loops, or create my own midi step patterns - which will be very artificial.

Im using Studio One 4 (Pro) as my DAW, have the stock plug ins plus MT Power Drummer, and I have kits on both my keyboards I can use.  I have the loops from MT Drummer, and some from Groove Monkey - but there not helping with what I need to do.

Do I just have to stump up for EX Drummer 2 - or wont that help me much in this situation either?

wave100

Have you tried finding a midi drum loop thats kind of similar to what you are looking for and then editing the kick and or snare to something more specific?Also you can use your keyboard to record drums in real time, you don't have to do it in step time. Perhaps try recording kick and snare first, then copy/paste the more realistic hats and fills from a midi drum groove - that sometimes works for me.

paulmapp8306

Im struggling to find anything close to what Im after TBH.  Playing in with a keyboard might work, but the dynamics wont be that great.

Stuckfast

Here's a thought. If you have a bass line in mind, a decent starting point might be to program a kick drum beat on every bass note (disregarding the odd passing note), and a closed hi-hat or ride on every division of the bar (quarter or eighth note depending on the feel of the song). Then it should start to feel obvious where the snares ought to go, and at least you'll have a basic groove.

octatonic

This is why I learned drumming.
You will always be chasing your tail unless you learn to think like a drummer.

Find a collaborator who plays drums.

mixolyd

This may not be helpful as it involves a specific drum VST.

I struggled for years with this issue of how to make use of drum loops while also getting a perfect fit for the song before finally solving it with the help of addictive drums 2.

AD2 lets you search your midi loops database by putting whatever beats you want in e.g. kick on 1 and 3, snare on 3.  Most drum VSTs have t his simple search feature but where AD2 differs is that it has an override feature where you can have it force the beats in the search results to have a particular pattern of your liking: you are not being restricted to just those that already have what you want.

So basically it is amending all the beats at the search stage to your liking rather than leaving you to select a beat then manually change it yourself as the other drum VSTs do.  This is a far superior way of working and means that it’s still the best for working with MIDI loops despite a couple of other VSTs arguably being better sound-wise.

Alternative:  there’s an ios app called music memo that will do drums for you, it’s surprisingly good.  You can then refine them in GarageBand or Logic.

paulmapp8306

EX Drummer lets you do that too.

Im doing something in 6/8 timing, and the drum pattern I have in my head isnt easy to get from pattern - its not really a pattern.

@octatonic - learning drums will be next up after piano.  Wont be for a few years, I need the kids moved to get space for the space for a kit

JAYJO

paulmapp8306 said:

EX Drummer lets you do that too.

Im doing something in 6/8 timing, and the drum pattern I have in my head isnt easy to get from pattern - its not really a pattern.

@octatonic - learning drums will be next up after piano.  Wont be for a few years, I need the kids moved to get space for the space for a kit

Do you mean EZ drummer 2.  I use this and its very useful. only just dabbled with it a bit but it is quick to get stuff down. 

paulmapp8306

yeh that.

Modulus_Amps

I have programmed loads of drum tracks, but still get the occasional one that I am never happy with, very frustrating

sorry not any help but I think learning to drum properly would probably help me a lot.

Shark_Eyes

I recently got a Launchpad Pro, the ability to fingerdrum has massively improved my drums. I also tend to do mine in layers, so might do high hat and snare on first pass, then add in bass drum on my second pass, this means I can actually play a lot of the drums in my head, despite being a mediocre drummer in real life.
Something like the Arturia Beatstep or the cheaper Akai USB pad things might help - https://www.gear4music.com/G4M/Akai-LPD8-Portable-Production-Pad/BPW ;

spark240

Have you tried Impact in S1 ?...plus there is a pattern editor in S1 too

PVO_Dave

EZ Drummer 2 does a 10 day free trail apparently. Hopefully you can use Tap2find to get the right drum beat?  

wave100

paulmapp8306 said:

Im struggling to find anything close to what Im after TBH.  Playing in with a keyboard might work, but the dynamics wont be that great.

It's better than drawing the notes onto a grid for sure! You can also edit the midi velocities afterwords to improve dynamics. However, it does sound like you're going to be happiest with a real drummer - I think there are people online who will record drums for your tracks for a fee, might be worth checking them out, no idea how much it costs though.
I have a feeling that drumming plugs work better when you start with the drums, then add bass and guitars rather than trying to adapt their patterns to suit your already recorded music.
Another approach could be to make a virtue of it by making it sound as drum machiney as possible. An 808 sounds nothing like a real drummer but has been on loads of records.

PolarityMan

You said that you hear in your head clearly what you want but when you program it it doesnt match..so there 2 things you might consider.

1.) You havent tracked the other instruments tightly enough to a click so when you program the drum parts it sounds off with the other instruments. I always tend to write a scratch track on 1 instrument, then program drums, then replace everything after the drums are down for that reason.

Now while there *are* times you might not want the drums gridded you''d be surprised at how infrequent that really is, and mostly you can use a swing grid.

2.) You are programming in the wrong subdivision. So maybe in your head you are hearing 1/8 triplets but you're trying to program on a 1/16th grid. When this happens you can usually get it pretty close but there is always something wrong sounding about it.

Yearofthegoat

^^^been there with no.2. Couldn't work out why it was out, then realised the whole project was in 4/4 when it needed 6/8.

I recently bought a second-hand Yamaha DD55 (only £60 and has pedals plus MIDI in and out) to record drums, then I tidy up the timing or add parts afterwards. I find it's usually quicker to play in simple patterns and edit, than it is to try and find the right loop in my DAW.

paulmapp8306

I'm finding that.  Tapping in on my fa07 pads, or keyboard and I get closer that trawling through loops.

The timing I get.  I need to also some searches on time signatures, and work out had to change mid song in the daw.  I often switch between 6/8 and 4/4 mid song.