Stripping a metallic finish - how best to go about it?

Bucket

Ok - my first ever guitar was a Dean Baby ML, which looks like this:

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af347/ConnorF1995/My gear/2012-01-29215652.jpg

(except it now has cream pickup rings and burnt chrome pickup covers, but we'll gloss over that because it looks shit)

I don't play it much any more - it's been languishing in its gig bag for a while, tuned to open C and feeling rather sorry for itself. It's actually a pretty good guitar - nice neck, decent pickups etc, and I want to bring it back into use. I also have to finally pick a bone I've always wanted to pick with it - I don't like the finish and never really have. It's a sparkly metallic silver and it just looks a bit wussy. It's basically a metal guitar, but the finish is too glam and I've always thought it would look better natural or something. Hence why I'm asking for advice on stripping the finish. 

The current finish (or at least the clearcoat over it) seems to chip quite easily (following the usual pointy-guitar incidents with walls etc) but I don't know how easy it would be to strip totally. It's basswood under there, I have no idea how many pieces or what the grain would be like obviously, but I have been inspired by this project I saw on sevenstring.org, with a low-end Dean that would have cost a similar amount to mine new, and would originally have been black, I think the body is basswood like mine, but IIRC could also be mahogany:

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2856/8873327911_6c8926ae27_c.jpg

I think that looks fantastic, and I'd like to do a similar thing (or along those lines, maybe not identical) to mine if I could. I think it's stripped, then stained "English Oak", then clear-coated. What's the best way of going about stripping a finish and making it look halfway decent? I don't want to ruin my first guitar... I appreciate it's a risk I have to take, but I'd like to do a good job of it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Adam_MD

I sanded a poly finish off a tremonti SE last year and it took forever! If I ever do it again I'll go for a heat gun and spatula then sand what's left to get to bare wood.

ThePrettyDamned

What he said. Is it a set neck? Might make it awkward as you probably wouldn't want to heat the neck.

Other than that, good luck! It's hard work, you'll need to be ready to sand between coats and stuff or you'll end up with an orange peel finish like I have on my sg. But it's rewarding work, and you might find it sounds better with a thinner coat of finish on it, too.

Bucket

No, it's a bolt-on and the neck is unpainted. Presumably I should remove the neck beforehand?

What do you mean by sanding "between coats"? Coats of the wood stain?

Corvus

If you don't have power tools, sand it with blocks, and coarse paper first. A good one it is 3M Fre-Cut but it's not cheap. You'll need different shape blocks/sticks for the different shapes & areas. 120 grade will cut pretty fast, then move to 180 and finer as you go, or there will be scratches. The right paper is key.
You will have to strip it somewhat. The wiring & pups can most prob stay in place, un-done and pushed into their cavities. Tape the inside of pot & switch holes. Wrap pups in tape.

Use a good tape like 3M blue, not the cream DIY rubbish... if it's hard to remove give it a quick waft with heatgun/hairdryer, comes right off then.

Power sanders can be a time saver but also a quick way to f*ck things up!

GuitarMonkey

Sanding takes forever. Like @Adam_MD above, I'd use a heat gun. 

If you use it judiciously you won't scorch the wood. The finish should almost peel off with a spatula if you get the temperature right.

_All_ you need to do then is to give it a final sand. 

You do need to remove every trace of finish though or your stain will be patchy.

WezV

I certainly wouldn't contemplate stripping a metallic finish by sanding, they generally have to be thicker than the equivilent solid colour.

 

heat gun to get most of the way, then sand once the paint is out the way.

 

 

don't use a heat gun on the neck though, scrape and sand through the layers

Bucket

Thanks guys, I think my dad should have a heat gun lying around in the garage so it looks like I'll do that.

Andyjr1515

As above - you are best using a heat gun and good quality scraper.  

Some finishes vary, but most metallics tend to have a light varnish (the clearcoat you mentioned) over a very thin metallic finish...at which you think WAHAYY!!! FIXED IT....and THEN you realise that under the metallic finish is a very, very tough and quite thick poly finish,

This is a shot of one I did recently at the WAHAYY!!! stage.  This bit only took me 1/2hr:  

Deceptive, isn't it?  Getting down to the actual wood took a few hours more...and that was WITH a heatgun!  To try to sand it would take you weeks!!!

By the way, contrary to one of the suggestions above, as you can see it is also a complete strip-down job before you start.  

Can be worth it, though, depending what is underneath (plywood / plain veneered multi-piece / un-veneered multi-piece / etc) and what finish you are after (sometimes, one affects the options open to you of the other).

The above one finished up like this:

Hope this helps

Andy

Corvus

Many ways to skin cats, but I've sanded plenty of guitars, with the right papers it's fast enough - certainly not weeks!. never used a heatgun. Half hour to get  that far is slow vs sanding with the right papers and a block/s - that's the key.

Metallic will most likely be 'base & clear'', the clearcoat should mostly come off with heatgun. The metallic will probably be ontop of a groundcoat or at least a primer, these stages are very thin and easy to sand off.

Total stripdown is not always needed, I have done several refins without needing to, but I guess with heatgun it is because of the wires etc.

ThePrettyDamned

Bucket;220070" said:

No, it's a bolt-on and the neck is unpainted. Presumably I should remove the neck beforehand?

What do you mean by sanding "between coats"? Coats of the wood stain?

A stain might not work, if the wood itself has been sealed. It won't absorb it.

However, if you were to spray a colour, or clear, or both, between each coat, you need to sand it.

I defer to others here - I know it needs to be done to avoid orange peel look, because my refin looked that way, but I don't know what grits to use. Presumably, quite fine. @wezv perhaps?

It basically just sands out any rough spots and ensures each coat is uniform.

I used plasticote to clear coat a marble finish. I can provide you with tips and method on marbling if you want, as mine was great first time (it was the clear coats that were orange peel looking!).

Bucket

If a stain might not work, what's the best way of getting a colour like that in the original post? It definitely looks like woodstain to me.

ThePrettyDamned

Bucket;220453" said:

If a stain might not work, what's the best way of getting a colour like that in the original post? It definitely looks like woodstain to me.

They removed the finish, then continued sanding the wood presumably. Time consuming, but worth it if that's what you're after. The problem is working out when you've gone past the sealer, as I don't think (please don't quote me on this) it's always obvious. The neck might be unfinished, but it would have been dipped in something to seal it to protect the wood, and the same is done to bodies to stop the finish soaking into the wood grain, whereas a stain, you normally want the opposite.

You might be able to get dark stained 'clear coats' to get a similar effect, too.

ThePrettyDamned

Also, although we have a huge wealth of wisdom here, I got most of my information through trial and error, and through tdpri. There are some great threads there which explains a lot of this sort of stuff. Definitely worth a search.

Andyjr1515

Corvus said:

Many ways to skin cats, but I've sanded plenty of guitars, with the right papers it's fast enough - certainly not weeks!.

You are, of course, quite right @Corvus ...maybe it just felt like weeks on some of the ones I have done that way  )

I've probably stripped a dozen guitars - 6 or so were fine; 4 were OK-ish but harder than you would reasonably consider that they should be; 2 - both metallics - were absolute bitches.  Beats me how some of these guitars would ever actually be able to be naturally reliced!  The things they hit, yes, but the guitars themselves??  

I always like to try with sandpaper at first because there is much less chance of gouging or burning but usually end up with a heatgun at some stage - and on the two metallics I have done, it was pretty much the only way.

And yes - it's the heatgun (and the ease of finishing to an extent, but depending on what kind of finish) that makes the full strip necessary.

As you say, there are many ways of skinning a cat but, at the end of the day, I suppose they all feel pretty much the same to the cat    

@Bucket - try first with sandpaper (it IS less risky) but be half expecting to need a heatgun.  Let us all know how it goes.

Andy

Corvus

Reckon it's like painting itself, there's different ways that end up at the same result. I guess I'm used to sanding as a method from custom car & bike painting, sanding a guitar seems a doddle in comparison!   And I have ended up with a ton of different papers and blocks. All good fun.