Ash, don't leave us!

terada

So I spend a week only vaguely touching in on the forum and I come back to this?

FFS

Jalapeno

Please stay

Bigsby

lonestar said:

Teyeplayer said:

Haven’t read the discussion but as is always the case in this sort of situation, we are in a better place when businesses are present and involved. Every business that ends up leaving or taking an increasingly back seat is a loss.

To sum it up, a thread (not naming the 3 businesses involved) was started for ranting purposes. When Ash identified himself as one of the businesses, it was debated that 48 hours was too long for an independent company to answer an email.

For me, there is no incentive to post on forums much these days. The forum rant is the new weapon against businesses. It’s a bloody immature way for an adult to conduct himself on the internet. Grow up, put the rattle back in the pram and use the phone if you want a quicker response from someone who is clearly busy at their craft.

To be fair, the OP didn't 'name and shame', they just had a little rant about how difficult it was to communicate with pickup winders in general. Surely not an unreasonable thing to comment about on a guitar forum. There was no 'weapon used against a business' here. 

Ranting about people ranting is still ranting.

Suggesting using the the phone to contact a small business is not a great idea - someone will have to stop work immediately to answer it, as they're unlikely to have staff to do it for them. Using email/contact forms is the right way to do it, unless it's really urgent. The trouble is, after 3 or 4 days, you have no idea if you're message disappeared into the ether, or a spam folder. Hence a reasonably prompt reply, auto response, or warning of slow response times are sound business practice these days.

I'd hate to see any guitar-related business leave this forum - it would be bad for all of us (and them), but if you're going to identify yourself in a thread, you're going to end up taking the content more personally. A PM might've been more effective on this occasion.

GoldenEraGuitars

Correct @Iamnobody , I and many other businesses on here have done well on the Fretboard.  But, this is just 1 of 5-10 outlets for us as a business. The problem is, do you contribute and put your head on the block or do you just sign in and upload to your own thread then leave? The latter is discouraged and most people who do that don’t get much business because no one trusts them.

For me, coming here is a definitely “one more thing I have to do” at the end of the day. And it’s hard keeping on top of all the lines of inquiries. Tbh, my thread attracts views, but it certainly doesn’t inspire conversation. So, uploading to Imgur then faffing around copying and pasting has been low on my list this past week tbh. 

Im happy to let my regular interaction here drop if I’m spending the time on my business instead.

Bridgehouse

Bigsby said:

lonestar said:

Teyeplayer said:

Haven’t read the discussion but as is always the case in this sort of situation, we are in a better place when businesses are present and involved. Every business that ends up leaving or taking an increasingly back seat is a loss.

To sum it up, a thread (not naming the 3 businesses involved) was started for ranting purposes. When Ash identified himself as one of the businesses, it was debated that 48 hours was too long for an independent company to answer an email.

For me, there is no incentive to post on forums much these days. The forum rant is the new weapon against businesses. It’s a bloody immature way for an adult to conduct himself on the internet. Grow up, put the rattle back in the pram and use the phone if you want a quicker response from someone who is clearly busy at their craft.

To be fair, the OP didn't 'name and shame', they just had a little rant about how difficult it was to communicate with pickup winders in general. Surely not an unreasonable thing to comment about on a guitar forum. There was no 'weapon used against a business' here. 

Ranting about people ranting is still ranting.

Suggesting using the the phone to contact a small business is not a great idea - someone will have to stop work immediately to answer it, as they're unlikely to have staff to do it for them. Using email/contact forms is the right way to do it, unless it's really urgent. The trouble is, after 3 or 4 days, you have no idea if you're message disappeared into the ether, or a spam folder. Hence a reasonably prompt reply, auto response, or warning of slow response times are sound business practice these days.

I'd hate to see any guitar-related business leave this forum - it would be bad for all of us (and them), but if you're going to identify yourself in a thread, you're going to end up taking the content more personally. A PM might've been more effective on this occasion.

I think the majority of the issue some had was the OP in their original post choosing to say that the pickup winders were treating him with contempt for not replying. That’s not discussing how difficult it is to get in touch with them, and it’s not just “a little rant” either. 

Anyway - mod hat on - if this thread becomes a rehash of the original thread then it will get closed and edited.. move along, nothing to see here etc..

prowla

I didn't read that thread after the 1st few posts, but I would say that a lot of folks seem to expect instant gratification in these interweb days.

A small/cottage industry has to weigh up the benefits of performing paid work vs. chatting and networking; if the latter means they can't earn the money then their business model will fail.

From the customer side, you can weigh up the options and are free to shop around.

As for forum content, when posts become attacks, it is time for the mods to take action; further to that, there should be zero tolerance for directed insults.

One perspective is to consider the recipient's viewpoint; if someone is considering moving on, then some line has been crossed.

OTOH (and I'm in no way suggesting that here!), if there is a charlatan or scammer about, they deserve to be called out!

Ah - the joys of a mod...

Roland

Personally (mod hat off) I think that Ash came out of that thread pretty well. He volunteered that it was about Oil City, and his honesty won’t have gone unnoticed. He has dealt with the request, and the OP mentioned that he was satisfied and was buying from Oil City. Following the feedback the website has been modified to provide automatic email confirmation to enquiries. Then there all of us weighing in saying that we value his contributions.

57Deluxe

who are the culprits that have led to this decision - surely they should be the ones to go??

GoldenEraGuitars

Just to further add to what a small business/sole trader experiences in the guitar world I’ve just answered 9 new messages and taken a customer phone call about proceeding with some work. It’s 11am on a Sunday morning, my kids are here with me and Charlie and lola is on the tv. This is me spending “quality time” with my kids. I answered everything to give me a chance of paying the mortgage in a few months. 

Im sure Ash has had to do the same when it comes to getting back to customers. 

I dont think business users here should get a free pass at “being right” all the time because we all get it wrong and make mistakes. Just a little common courtesy. It’s the manner in which others communicate their opinions.

At the end of the day, we’re all lucky to have each other. The customer keeps the small business owner in business and said business gets to see their work being used and enjoyed the way it was meant to be. The vision is therefor complete. But a rant for a 48 hour delay in responding to an email? Pfffttt

Jimbro66

tone1 said:

I’ve only just read the closed thread this morning and was dismayed to hear that Ash is considering leaving.....He not only contributes massively by his extremely generous raffle prizes, but he always replies knowledgeably on any thread with regard to his field of expertise and is an absolute Gentleman....
I think it would be a very sad day if he leaves...

This ^^. Except I’ve not read that thread but can imagine.

Ash is one of the true technical experts on here who has continuously posted advice and guidance over a lot of time. Invaluable. For me losing his input would be something of a tragedy. Hopefully Ash won’t go.

OilCityPickups

57Deluxe said:

who are the culprits that have led to this decision - surely they should be the ones to go??

I will comment here: There are no culprits, just some poorly chosen words, and nobody should feel they have to hound out person or persons who perhaps didn't phrase things well. I haven't made a firm decision as to leaving or staying yet ... I'm super busy both with preparation for the Birmingham guitar show, training my new assistant Honey, and satisfying orders, I shall probably simply take a rest from regular posting for a while in order to discuss our media and forum approach with my business partner. 
As far as I'm aware the original poster is about to order from me, has sent me a very nice PM, and hopefully will join the ranks of my satisfied customers. 

gilby

"Instant gratification", really does sum up today's society. If you want something hand made you got to expect that the guy might be busy hand making stuff ! If you've no patience then buy a dimarzio via Amazon prime and be happy.
(I wonder if people complained about Michael Angelo taking too long responding to parchments? )

prlgmnr

gilby said:

"Instant gratification", really does some up today's society. If you want something hand made you got to expect that the guy might be busy hand making stuff ! If you've no patience then buy a dimarzio via Amazon prime and be happy.
(I wonder if people complained about Michael Angelo taking too long resoonding to parchments? )

Honestly took a minute trying to work out what Batio had to do with all this.

Sassafras

In the old days we had to use messengers for communication and if you didn't like a certain response you ended up having to shoot that messenger which hugely disrupted the whole process.
We've never had it so good!

digitalscream

57Deluxe said:

who are the culprits that have led to this decision - surely they should be the ones to go??

Why? They didn't break any rules.

Point is, there's little to be gained by anybody leaving. Given that no rules were broken, the community itself ends up poorer (by varying degrees) whenever somebody leaves (either quietly or with a flounce).

Far better that - whenever we see a thread which provokes some kind of reaction - we all take a moment, and reflect on the fact that there's a human being on the other end of whatever we're about to say. Use a little imagination to fuel a bit of empathy - in this case, it was a small business. What pressures might there be to cause a lack of speedy response, for example?

I'm being uncharacteristically optimistic in the face of an abundance of evidence, I know, but...I can't help feeling that everything might be just a little bit better if we went down that road instead.

GoldenEraGuitars

TheGuitarWeasel said:

57Deluxe said:

who are the culprits that have led to this decision - surely they should be the ones to go??

I will comment here: There are no culprits, just some poorly chosen words, and nobody should feel they have to hound out person or persons who perhaps didn't phrase things well. I haven't made a firm decision as to leaving or staying yet ... I'm super busy both with preparation for the Birmingham guitar show, training my new assistant Honey, and satisfying orders, I shall probably simply take a rest from regular posting for a while in order to discuss our media and forum approach with my business partner. 
As far as I'm aware the original poster is about to order from me, has sent me a very nice PM, and hopefully will join the ranks of my satisfied customers. 

Hope to see you in Brum, Ash. I’m trying to take a few days off to pop over to the show.

Wazmeister

digitalscream said:

57Deluxe said:

who are the culprits that have led to this decision - surely they should be the ones to go??

Why? They didn't break any rules.

Point is, there's little to be gained by anybody leaving. 

I'm being uncharacteristically optimistic in the face of an abundance of evidence, I know, but...I can't help feeling that everything might be just a little bit better if we went down that road instead.

Wisdom mate

GoldenEraGuitars

digitalscream said:

57Deluxe said:

who are the culprits that have led to this decision - surely they should be the ones to go??

Why? They didn't break any rules.

Point is, there's little to be gained by anybody leaving. Given that no rules were broken, the community itself ends up poorer (by varying degrees) whenever somebody leaves (either quietly or with a flounce).

Far better that - whenever we see a thread which provokes some kind of reaction - we all take a moment, and reflect on the fact that there's a human being on the other end of whatever we're about to say. Use a little imagination to fuel a bit of empathy - in this case, it was a small business. What pressures might there be to cause a lack of speedy response, for example?

I'm being uncharacteristically optimistic in the face of an abundance of evidence, I know, but...I can't help feeling that everything might be just a little bit better if we went down that road instead.

Idea - how about next to the wis, lol and wow buttons you have a “bawbag” button. Only admins can use it. It’ll clearly show how many times the user has officially been a tit to someone else? 

I jest, of course.

Bigsby

gilby said:

"Instant gratification", really does sum up today's society. 

I don't think that really works in this context: The telephone is a lot more 'instant' than an online contact form or e-mail will ever be, and telephones have been around a lot longer than any of us. 

fastonebaz

I would far rather read posts from an expert craftsman than an opinionated keyboard warrior.   #ashtostay