I'm not a fast player.. I admit it.

Vibetronic

Barney said:

I try and mix things up a bit bit like I do on this one ...most of the quicker bits are legato type of stuff... it's a good way to get the right hand loosened up ...

Lovely stuff - you're one of my favourite players around here!  Perfect mix of technique and musicality and precisely what I'm trying to get better at! 

welshboyo

Barney said:

I try and mix things up a bit bit like I do on this one ...most of the quicker bits are legato type of stuff... it's a good way to get the right hand loosened up ...

I've told you before mate @Barney I hate you

Barney

equalsql said:

Wow @Barney, you've got some serious chops there mate!  

Thanks Mate

Vibetronic said:

Barney said:

I try and mix things up a bit bit like I do on this one ...most of the quicker bits are legato type of stuff... it's a good way to get the right hand loosened up ...

Lovely stuff - you're one of my favourite players around here!  Perfect mix of technique and musicality and precisely what I'm trying to get better at! 

Thanks mate..that means lot to me welshboyo said:

Barney said:

I try and mix things up a bit bit like I do on this one ...most of the quicker bits are legato type of stuff... it's a good way to get the right hand loosened up ...

I've told you before mate @Barney I hate you

This has made me giggle

Fretwired

@equalsql ; .. I'm like you playing since I was 15 (had 25 years off) and now in my 60s. I'm not Akkerman/Vai quick but I don't think you need to be. Gilmore tops a lot of guitar polls through phrasing, feeling and tone - he admits he's never been quick. Shredding leaves me cold these days.

Very few new guitarists have their own voice these days. They study online or go to 'guitar school' which churns out endless template guitar players.

peteri

I think everyone has a different idea of vast, for me I find the EVH stuff relatively easy to hit, not a problem really - find his rhythm playing much harder to get than lead.

But the Yngwie/shred/sweeping stuff alludes me - just can't get that down, this year I've made it a mission - but it's a long slow slog, do others find it different? Even three string sweeps are taking ages to get working

DLM

Sure, there are "fast players" on here. Vibetronic and Octatonic have already checked in. I'll send out a loud "AWESOME!" to summon Tigger: @thomasross20 and leave a French bayonet and a few long ellipses lying around for @Clarky ....... ........ ............

peteri said:

I think everyone has a different idea of fast [1]

In an attempt to quantify "fast" guitar playing, I usually see three benchmarking systems:

1. Sixteenths (semiquavers) @ X bpm
2. Sextuplets (semiquaver triplets) @ X bpm
3. Notes per second

For years, I've seen guitar mag writers like Shaun Baxter state that fast playing begins at

1. 160
2. 120

which are equivalent to

1. 10.6 nps
2. 12 nps

respectively. (Inevitably, many will point out that this isn't all that quick compared to wossname, but one has to start somewhere... )

I think the lower figure for sixteenths allows for the fact that three-note-per-string fretboard patterns make it easier to play tuplet ideas in time. And that timing becomes a bit more "subjective" with tuplets. Ahem.

Further exploration will likely lead down the rabbit hole delved by internet ledge WillJay:

https://forum.troygrady.com/t/willjays-nps-clocking-project/2600

And trying to actually get faster might well (also) lead to Troy Grady, who in that thread also says that the fastest playing of all gets pretty boring. I agree, but it is exhilarating to a point. That point often being where things become inaudible/indiscernible.

But all that's putting the cart before the horse: Exploring some of Grady's materials ought to help one get from "slow" to "fast", or at least "fast-ish". @Peteri will find good "Yng for beginners" licks here. And exploration of how other shredders tried to sound like Yngwie and discovered different techniques of their own on the way. It might be the same notes, but it sounds different.

If you find Grady too much, here's a more no-nonsense approach:

This was good, too:

I call it "goosing it" – pushing the envelope is important once you've got a good idea of what to do.

If you've no health issues and can put some time in, you can get faster.

But failure to land on a "good note" consistently after "the fast bit" will undo all of the above, unless you're Kmac2012 or Rudy Ayoub and doing it for tehlolz. 

[1]FTFY.

Barney

Vibetronic said:

I love playing fast - there's something about it that feels really, really satisfying to me. For me it's partly getting something mechanically right, applying it, and getting a perfect sequence of notes one after the other, and also getting my hands to be able to do exactly what I want them to do without any physical hindrance to it. I love the technical aspect of playing and I'm still obsessed with it; if I'm not teaching (working) then I'm practicing and I'm still getting quicker, which is cool. 

That being said, the last few years I've worked loads on phrasing & vibrato as obviously that is massively important. The speed/tech stuff is really for my own enjoyment - my own music I record is just what I find fun, and if other people like it then that's great. I do some of the widdly stuff in our covers band as that's part of our thing really, but in the proggy-metal band I'm in it's much more about fitting the song, and it's not shredding away all the time. One of the solos I'm most pleased with in it is one I spent ages on working out nice, slow phrases with different tones and none of the fast stuff at all. 

This one is working on getting the multi-finger stuff back up to speed. It's really just to crowbar the tapping run in, and getting used to it so I can fit it in (more tastefully & if it fits!) into solos: 



And this is the stuff I record:



Unfortunately I can't post much of prog band stuff as the album isn't out yet and I'll get a bollocking from the label if I do, but here's a trailer with a solo and unflattering photograph at 1:05:

Great stuff man....love the song as well ..really tasteful playing !

Clarky

I tend to treat speed [which I think of as 'note density'] as an effect..
to my mind, effects are not just gain, delay, reverb, swirlies etc, but also include note selection, note density, direction, melodic lines and phrasing..
I like to use different note densities to generate specific musical impacts.. long lyrical notes to create space and open out the solo.. greater densities to create a sense of urgency or to make a solo climax..

the solo here starts around 3.00-ish mins
note in this one the bulk of the sol is about space and melody.. however I use a few brief bursts to head into notes that climax.. and then tear into it a little more at the end for the final climax..




this one follows a similar mentality but in a different context.. start melodic, then tear it up to increase the intensity..



this one comes from a different place.. at the start I'm trying to be 'cool / sassy' sounding..
then I just throw in something flash as that's just how I felt like playing at the time..
having a little show-off here and there is fun..
so it was less 'thought about' than the previous two.. I was playing more instinctively here

ionian

When I opened this thread my intention was to write:

The key to playing fast is to play slowly to start with

Which, in hindsight, is accurate but a little bit like fortune cookie wisdom. There are a lot of good contributions that make various important points in this thread that make that snippet a bit redundant.

Fast playing (on its own) =/= good music/soloing. 

But it can be a part, an integral part, of many different styles. I think the key is actually to continue to push our musical horizons in what we play, what we learn and what we listen to. Speed is just one part of the language of music and competence at playing fast comes (like all competences) by hard grafting practice. So keep listening and playing and consciously pushing yourself. 

roberty

You need to sort out your technique to play fast, in doing so you will likely find that your playing will improve at every speed

Bellycaster

As previously stated, you can play inspirational music on a Guitar without being fast (definition varies). I've played 32 years and I'm not "fast" as I define it and I never will be.

Kebabkid

equalsql said:

Wow @Barney, you've got some serious chops there mate!  

Ditto. Nice one Barney!

thomasross20

Thanks @DLM. Actually these days I prefer  playing acoustic and singing  

Clarky

ionian said:

Fast playing (on its own) =/= good music/soloing. 

this especially..
and yes, start the lick slow [as in slow motion rather than just at a slow tempo] and little by little build it up.
but you yourself already know this as do many because it's been repeated over and over by every guitarist inline.. even those that can barely play [not joking or having a pop at them, it's just a simple fact]..

the trick to playing fast is not only repetition.. yes this is important to build the neural pathways, but there's more...
here's the bit that's missing..
posture - poor posture restricts dexterity, limits strength and control, reduces stamina
consistent picking patterns and fingerings - choose the most efficient ones for that lick / moment and then do not alter them as the tempo increases.. playing snotty fast is like a reflex.. you don't think, you just do.. so you drill consistent ways of playing certain high speed licks / note groupings / scale locations..
economy - do not do anything at all that does not need doing.. sounds obvious don't it.. so don't swing the pick in a wider arc than needed.. don't apply any more pressure than needed.. etc.. be efficient..
one size does not fit all - there is no such thing as "this is THE way you should play always because it's right and proper". I switch techniques, hand shapes and picking patterns all the time.. even mid-lick.. just do whatever it takes to make the lick sound clean and well articulated.. learn the combinations of techniques and methods, burn them in and then start winding up the tempo..
a 'one size fits all' approach to technique only really works for exercises, it does not always work for real music

roberty

Clarky said:

economy - do not do anything at all that does not need doing.. sounds obvious don't it.. so don't swing the pick in a wider arc than needed.. don't apply any more pressure than needed.. etc.. be efficient..

Found this extremely useful for left hand economy

DLM

OK, if people are posting examples of their own playing, here's mine:

That ought to start playing at the beginning of my solo, which isn't all that fast in the grand scheme of things (sextuplets at 120ish), though I realise that might sound sniffy to anyone struggling at lower tempi. There's a picking/tapping/hammer-on and pull-off mix there. I wasn't able to get much sweeping into solos with the band because I felt it tended to sound too contrived. There's a little on You Kill Me, and I usually added a bit more live:

https://cyrence.bandcamp.com/track/you-kill-me

axisus

I can play as fast as I feel I want to, which isn't that fast. I used to listen to a lot of widdlers back in the 80s, I would buy all that shrapnel stuff, but I did notice over time that people generally aren't that into fast playing just for the sake of it, you see lots of derogatory remarks on line these days about fast stuff. The thing that really put me off was this one Chris Impellitteri video, he just seemed too fast that it was like some kind of boring machine rather than music. I'm sure he's played some great music over time, but this one video made me think, Nah, I don't wanna go there.

Stuckfast

In recent years I've come to the uncomfortable realisation that I am a very lazy guitarist. I spend quite a lot of time playing but no time doing structured exercises or focused practice. If there's a particular piece that I want to learn I can apply myself and put the hours in, but I don't do the kind of 'background' hard work that makes people into good technical players.

For years I told myself that it didn't matter that I couldn't do fast stuff because those techniques are mostly used in music I don't like or want to play. But now I think that was just an excuse. I would be a better guitarist if I'd learned more technique, regardless of whether I like the music that relies on that technique. 

viz

DLM said:

OK, if people are posting examples of their own playing, here's mine:

Wow, that was pretty impressive. 

stratman3142

It's more about hearing something I like and wanting to incorporate it into my playing than speed in itself.
You mentioned Kossoff in your original post, who was my first guitar hero in my teens. In an attempt to emulate his sound, I spent well over a year trying to develop finger vibrato, including watching him live. I never really nailed Kossoff's vibrato, so I even failed with that, but hopefully I developed a half decent vibrato in the process of trying.

You also mention Larry Carlton and Van Halen. I've struggled more with playing some Larry Carlton stuff than some Van Halen. For example, Larry Carlton's Strikes Twice riff (or should I say 'Jaguar' by Johnny Smith ) is an absolute pig for me and I have to keep working at it.

I can play pretty fast with legato (probably helped by the fact that I'm left handed but play right handed), tapping, and 'pick every note' linear scalar stuff. But, to my great frustration, I still can't get that rapid fire 'pentatonic picking thing' up to the speed and articulation of Eric Johnson and Joe B, even though it's much slower than other stuff I can play.

As people are posting clips, here's a 'Spinal Tap' moment from a recent gig . Warning it's not for those that like tasteful playing and I have no illusions about it being musical. I can already feel the hate that's going to come my way, but it always goes down a storm with the audience.