Dead frets, set up tips and your general specs ie action and relief

sunshinewelly

I have carried out a basic set up of my jem and have reached a point where the lowest action i can get is around 1.65 mm on bottom E and around 1.4 mm top E - this is on a straight neck with around 0.10 mm relief (less than my other guitars but assume a jem can get away with a low relief).The action is at this point pretty much all the way from the 10th Fret to the 25th Fret (which i like as my others guitars tend to have a higher action at the 22nd fret than the 12th fret) - 

This is generally buzz free (like to do this without guitar being plugged in rather than masking any buzz) - however one weird thing i have is with the 12th fret on bottom E. basically when pressed to fret board normally (as you would when holding down a string) there is no buzz on that fret. also tapping it hard and quick to fretboard provides a similar sound as to every other fret when i do the same.(it rings) However if i press it more softly and slower it hits the fret and makes a dull sound and does not really ring out (more like a thonky buzz sound)- is this a dead fret or is there too little relief in the neck.(it will ring out when i strike it harder and faster though)

i has assumed that the jem is designed for very low action. I am happy with the action at this point - low enough to be easy to play but still enough play to stop fingers slipping when bending etc.

I assume there is no real correct relief setting on a guitar ie my tokai les paul has around 0.20 mm relief, my strat is around 0.25 mm (i do tend to like a straight neck if i can get it)

what sort of action and relief are you getting on a pointy guitar (ie not a les paul, strat etc).

Also do most people get a set up done on their guitars. i can do a basic one which has served me well enough for now

carlos

around 1.65 mm on bottom E and around 1.4 mm top E - is this at the 12th fret?

Strange to have same action from 10th to 25th fret, though, how do you do that? Always thought a bit of bow would be natural since the string vibrates more in the middle, i.e. around 20th fret or so?

sunshinewelly

hi yes at 12th Fret - but its almost the same at the 24th fret - possibly a fraction higher at the 24th 

carlos

One of mine is 1.25mm on the bass side and 1mm on the treble side, going up to 2mm (and a bit), 1.75mm or so on 24th fret. There's buzz but only acoustically, no buzz when going through an amp, even a clean amp. Should I tighten then neck to make those values closer to each other?

digitalscream

Just fixed the title typo for you

mike_l

I haven't measured, but my Jackson is around the same as georgenaintl has said, my Ibanez is probably a fraction higher, but not much. All of mine will be around that sort of action, strung with 9's.

streethawk

Do you hear a difference in the 12th fretted low E when the guitar is amplified? That's all that really matters. I'm just like you, I have me ear to the board at the slightest rattle - it's a sickness!

If it were a 'dead fret' causing some sort of catastrophic tone loss, that would be apparent on every string fretted in that position. 

Tip: tap the suspect fret with a brittle screwdriver handle and see if it sounds different to the adjacent frets. Or don't, just play the thing and see if it sounds right. 

I suppose if you were very happy with the current set up, which you appear to be, you could have a smidgen of fallaway added past the 12th fret, see if that helps any. 

carlos

georgenadaintl said:

One of mine is 1.25mm on the bass side and 1mm on the treble side, going up to 2mm (and a bit), 1.75mm or so on 24th fret. There's buzz but only acoustically, no buzz when going through an amp, even a clean amp. Should I tighten then neck to make those values closer to each other?

I meant the 12th and 24th frets height closer. My Vigier had insane low action too, but I had to bring it up when I changed to B tuning using 011-054.

sunshinewelly

streethawk said:

Do you hear a difference in the 12th fretted low E when the guitar is amplified? That's all that really matters. I'm just like you, I have me ear to the board at the slightest rattle - it's a sickness!

If it were a 'dead fret' causing some sort of catastrophic tone loss, that would be apparent on every string fretted in that position. 

Tip: tap the suspect fret with a brittle screwdriver handle and see if it sounds different to the adjacent frets. Or don't, just play the thing and see if it sounds right. 

I suppose if you were very happy with the current set up, which you appear to be, you could have a smidgen of fallaway added past the 12th fret, see if that helps any. 

no its only on the low E 12th fret - every other string at that fret is fine - again when amplified it sounds normal.

the question is if i introduce some relief am i going to get a lower action.

I did get it down to less than 1.4 mm on bottom E but had muffled sounds on Frets 18 and up on the bottom E (everything else was fine )

streethawk

Generally, no, if you introduce some relief you will get higher action.

It's a trade off and depends where it is you are measuring the action, also where the neck is showing the relief.

If you had some fallaway added to the higher frets you could get the neck pretty straight and experience low action without the frets you mentioned being a problem, especially with a refined (picking hand) touch. 

Depends on the guitar and the player, don't take my word for it, take accurate measurements and observations of your neck, google the model for other players' specific experiences and I'm sure you'll get to where you want to be.

sunshinewelly

What's fallaway

streethawk

sunshinewelly said:

What's fallaway

It's when all the frets up to a certain point - let's say the 13th fret - are dead level but after that point they start to get incrementally lower, by very slight amounts. The level 'falls away'. 

Often helps with the issues you describe when going for a super low action. YMMV.

(don't try this at home). 

sunshinewelly

I have checked the frets with a level checking 3 frets at a time and they seem perfectly flat. The issue seems only on bottom e string. I don't know whether it is because its a new string or because they are 9 gauge. The edge bridge is parallel. I tried a much higher action and the note still tonks (like a dull metallic thud) rather than rings when it's tapped against 12th fret. Also same thing on 16th fret. Only on bottom e and it plays fine when fretted normally. Other strings at same fret are fine. It's just tapping e string down against those 2 frets. Tried more relief same issue so put it back at 0.15 mm relief. Even though it's not noticeable when played through amp I am quite a stickler for any imperfections. I wonder if it's something a luthier could sort out. Don't know of any decent luthiers in south Wales

streethawk

It's more a mental health issue at this stage, and as I said before - guilty myself.

>:D<

Like I said earlier, lightly tap the actual fret with something solid that won't dent it, all the way down that fret and the two adjacent ones and see if there's any obvious difference.

While you're at it, try tapping the same string against the adjacent frets and see if you get the same dull thud - could just be the frequency of the fat string.

If you brought that to me I'd probably stifle a laugh then level the frets with some fallaway added, I'd also wick some fine superglue into the suspect fret end for good measure. 

But really, just leave the damn thing it sounds like a peach!

Lew

You should be able to get alot lower than that on an Ibby without issue, prob just needs some fret love. I think most people consider having anything under 1.5 as a low action.

I raised my action from 1.0 low side and 0.8 high to 1.1 either side earlier in an attempt to be reet manly there's a bit of buzz when you thwack the low e (acoustically) but then I am using 10-46 in Dstd/24.75 so I'm asking for it.

Nunogilberto

I'd love to be able to set my own guitars up - I can restring them etc but I find it hard dealing with certain niggles on a guitar.

Case in point - my Squier Fat Tele goes out of tune as you go up the neck; open tuning stays fine, but when you start fretting chords, it's out of whack entirely. I've tried adjusting the intonation but it didn't do all that much...

streethawk

Nunogilberto said:

I'd love to be able to set my own guitars up - I can restring them etc but I find it hard dealing with certain niggles on a guitar.

Case in point - my Squier Fat Tele goes out of tune as you go up the neck; open tuning stays fine, but when you start fretting chords, it's out of whack entirely. I've tried adjusting the intonation but it didn't do all that much...

I'd have another whack at adjusting the intonation.