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Cheap Guitars

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mbembe Frets: 1840
I've read the Expensive Guitars thread and it raised some interesting points regarding labour costs,  bragging rights and value for money etc. I think a thread discussing the opposite end of the spectrum might be equally interesting.

I have a few nice guitars now, all of them Asian in origin and cost under a grand but only a couple less than £200. If I totted up the cost of them all, I could probably have bought something spectacular. I've had Fenders, a Tokai, Gibson Les Paul and a Rickenbacker but I get bored with them eventually. Maybe guitars are like chewing gum to me and lose their flavour after a while.

Recently, I bought a Squier Bullet Mustang off gumtree for £70 primarily for the posh gigbag it came with. The Mustang has been fettled and, with the pickups changed to some Jackson humbuckers I had, it's turned into a fun little guitar to play mainly because of the short scale.

The Mustang got me thinking, how cheap can you go to buy a guitar shaped object that can be turned into a reasonable instrument? So, I've always hankered after a Flying Vee and saw a new one on ebay for £99. I bought it thinking, let's see how this turns out and if it's truly horrible and beyond rehabilitation I can always just return it. For now I have to suspend my disbelief until the item turns up in the post. 


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Comments

  • underdogunderdog Frets: 8334
    I've got one of those Mustangs too, really good guitar and brilliant value for money.
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  • thegummythegummy Frets: 4389
    Interesting question.

    I was tempted to buy a 65 quid bass the other day so I could take it to practice and not worry about my good bass being left in the cold etc.

    I just thought that surely at that price it just has to be shit. Could be wrong though!
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  • There's no doubt cheap guitars are better than they've ever been right now. 

    But - playing Devil's advocate - how much are you screwing the guys working in the factory that builds a guitar that cheap?
    The Assumptions - UAE party band for all your rock & soul desires
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  • I feel that as long as you avoid complexity then a cheap guitar can be very good. So for example I'd avoid a locking trem on a cheap guitar, possibly avoid trems completely, and go for the simplicity of a fixed bridge. Much less to cock up. 

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  • robertyroberty Frets: 10893
    edited February 2019
    The Harley Benton Jazz bass is gigable out of the box for £120.  Astonishing value for money.  It weighs a ton and has a baseball bat neck, so not for the faint hearted.  I borrowed one for a few weeks and it was a genuinely good instrument

    https://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_jb_75_sb_vintage_series.htm
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  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Frets: 13929
    edited February 2019
    I had a Yamaha Pacifica PAC311H and it was a very good guitar, very tidy fit and finish and the satin body & neck felt great. You can get one for £289. It's the cheapest guitars I've owned in the last 20 years but not the worst by a long a way, held up well against much more expensive guitars.

    https://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/Yamaha-Pacifica-311H-Yellow-Natural-Satin/GYO


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  • TTBZTTBZ Frets: 2873
    edited February 2019
    I think most guitars these days are playable and usable as they come. As I said in the other thread I like to get something reasonably cheap which has decent construction and hardware so I don't end up eventually replacing everything. Normally I'll do a pickup swap and that's it.

    My old Epiphone with Bare Knuckles and a decent setup sounded and played every bit as good as my mates Gibson (if not better as the pickups were decent), cost less than half of what the Gibson did, including the upgrades. To me that's much better value for money, especially as I don't really rate Gibson pickups and would have replaced them on the more expensive guitar anyway. I'm all for the underdog guitar!
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  • SassafrasSassafras Frets: 30273
    Just because it's cheap doesn't mean it's cack. I bought a PRS SE soapbar thing that is a really very good instrument. Didn't have to do anything to it to improve it.
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  • JDEJDE Frets: 1092
    I think an £80 Encore is about as “low” as you can go and still get something playable. 
    Tuners, fretwork and electronics are the real cut-corners, but if the frets are ok they’re basically gig worthy imo. 
    With regards to the labour point - the people that build the £80 Encores probably aren’t paid any less than the people that are building, say, £500 Epiphones or £1000 iPads. From a manufacturing perspective most business models that employ overseas (China and India really) manufacturing do not pay factory employees relative to the sale price of the finished product, it doesn’t make financial sense. If you are concerned about how much a worker in the Samick factory is getting paid and so don’t buy a Pacifica because of it, you better chuck all of your Apple products in the bin because when they’re sending kids from Sierra Leone into mines for quartz you can bet your life they’re not being paid a fair wage. 
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  • blobbblobb Frets: 2914
    I'm playing a £50 tanglewood strat copy at the moment. It's my 'I don't care' guitar, I can throw it in the boot of the car, lean it against a radiator etc... without worrying about it. I'm trying out some alternative tunings and don't want to worry about consequences on the neck. To be honest, I would be happy with this guitar if it was all I had. So far it has taken all the punishment I've thrown at it. Think I'd rather have a nice amp.
    Feelin' Reelin' & Squeelin'
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  • mbembe Frets: 1840

    But - playing Devil's advocate - how much are you screwing the guys working in the factory that builds a guitar that cheap?
    Well this is one aspect of cheap guitars that I hope we can come to terms with, if only to salve our consciences.

    I think manufacturers in Asia vary greatly in their treatment of workers regarding terms and conditions of employment. Perhaps the employment in a guitar factory raises the workers out of absolute poverty. There again, apart from those poor guys who spend all day at the buffing wheels, making guitars isn't too horrible.

    I have a friend who is a respected luthier and it took him a few years to earn minimum wage. Even now he barely makes a living wage in terms of hourly rate but he loves what he does and couldn't contemplate doing anything else for a living.

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  • DrBobDrBob Frets: 2998
    I was looking for a lefty electric for my daughter 
    (A house full of guitars already but they all point the wrong way....) and one of those Harley Benton Mustangs came up for £60 used on a local FB group.
    Not entirely convinced by how good the Jazzmaster type trem unit is going to be on a guitar for that price but aside from that the actual, neck & frets etc are all incredibly good for the price point. Wilkinson pickups too !
    I will give it a fret dress and setup at some point but to be honest it plays fine without
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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14321
    TTBZ said:
    I think most guitars these days are playable and usable as they come. 
    This is, largely, the case.

    Pickups and hardware can be upgraded in the longer term. Nut slots, fret ends and fingerboard edges can be fettled in your own time.

    I had a Yamaha Pacifica PAC311H and it was a very good guitar, very tidy fit and finish and the satin body & neck felt great. You can get one for £289. It's the cheapest guitars I've owned in the last 20 years but not the worst by a long a way, held up well against much more expensive guitars.

    https://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/Yamaha-Pacifica-311H-Yellow-Natural-Satin/GYO
    I still have one. IMO, the stock pots and selector switch are cheap crap and the own-brand humbucker is gutless. 

    After reading the specs for the 611, I invested in a Duncan TB-14 Custom 5 humbucker. Yamaha had chosen wisely.
    Be seeing you.
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  • mbembe Frets: 1840
    @Funkfingers was the 311 stock humbucker a G&B made in Korea? I took one of those from the bridge position of my PAC112V and replaced it with an Epiphone branded pickup taken from a Kramer. Much improvement; at the same time I rejigged the coil split switch into a series/parallel option which seems to have increased the guitar's versatility.
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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14321
    mbe said:
    @Funkfingers was the 311 stock humbucker a G&B, made in Korea?
    Korean? In all probability, yes.

    The brand? I can not remember. The pickup got installed in a budget guitar that I sold or traded. 
    Be seeing you.
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  • darthed1981darthed1981 Frets: 11670
    JDE said:
    I think an £80 Encore is about as “low” as you can go and still get something playable. 
    Tuners, fretwork and electronics are the real cut-corners, but if the frets are ok they’re basically gig worthy imo. 
    With regards to the labour point - the people that build the £80 Encores probably aren’t paid any less than the people that are building, say, £500 Epiphones or £1000 iPads. From a manufacturing perspective most business models that employ overseas (China and India really) manufacturing do not pay factory employees relative to the sale price of the finished product, it doesn’t make financial sense. If you are concerned about how much a worker in the Samick factory is getting paid and so don’t buy a Pacifica because of it, you better chuck all of your Apple products in the bin because when they’re sending kids from Sierra Leone into mines for quartz you can bet your life they’re not being paid a fair wage. 
    Was going to post something, but will Wis this instead.
    We have to be so very careful, what we believe in...
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  • My main guitar is a Harley Benton TE52 that cost €125 (I used thomann loyalty vouchers to pay £65 in "real money").
    I've modified it pretty heavily since getting it (total spend £200) however the guitar that arrived was a perfectly serviceable telecaster & I believe you could gig one with minimal issues. 


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  • GrumpyrockerGrumpyrocker Frets: 4118
    edited February 2019
    TTBZ said:
    I think most guitars these days are playable and usable as they come. As I said in the other thread I like to get something reasonably cheap which has decent construction and hardware so I don't end up eventually replacing everything. Normally I'll do a pickup swap and that's it.

    My old Epiphone with Bare Knuckles and a decent setup sounded and played every bit as good as my mates Gibson (if not better as the pickups were decent), cost less than half of what the Gibson did, including the upgrades. To me that's much better value for money, especially as I don't really rate Gibson pickups and would have replaced them on the more expensive guitar anyway. I'm all for the underdog guitar!
    I foolishly sold my Epiphone LP (guitar in my avatar). It had a gorgeous plain top and sounded fantastic with the Iron Gear pickups I put in it. There certainly wasn't a £1400 gulf between it and my Gibson LP.

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  • It's alot easier with solidbody guitars. With acoustics you can find excellent guitars around £500-£700 like Recording King, Guild etc but over £1200 you really notice the difference. And under £400 will be consistently just 'okay'.

    Now Electrics. 
    What you will find is hardware and finish tends more to be crap on cheap guitars. You can get a brilliant (at least the one I had) J&D brothers bass for peanuts. But the tuners, hardware and pickups will suffer vs a MIM or other mid priced jazz. Between £1000-2000 you are getting a well made electric that you can upgrade pickups on. Anything above that will not sound better (pickups are 80% of the tone at this point) but look better, have more pricy construction like arched tops, fancy woods, binding and have unique design features. 
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  • Not quite guitar, but I got a lot of mileage out of gigging a Squier Precision Special. It didn't sound majorly special on it's own (although adding a touch of the j pickup onto the p was a sweet spot) but it was good enough through a reasonable amp. Not easy getting together a gigging set up back when I was a student and primarily a guitarist!!

    Considering most of the time it was just root notes under guitar in pubs/clubs it didn't need anything much more. Sat nicely in the mix and more than paid it's way until the electronics eventually shat the bed.
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