Binoculars for twitching

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RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Frets: 13929
edited February 2019 in Off Topic
It's my birthday soon and my wife has offered to buy me some binoculars for birdwatching. After a bit of research and trying a pair out I'm leaning towards the Nikon Prostaff 7S 10x42.

Anything else to consider in the £200 range?

Can't wait, I'm going to get into bird watching, I love turning older!


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Comments

  • Has your wife not twigged which kind of 'birds' you're interested in watching?
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  • ... and besides... that £200 should be going into your pension.
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  • I can see Dawn from over the roads bedroom window from the man cave...err...shit did I just type that aloud?

    I need binoculars to read the pension statements!


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  • ChristopheChristophe Frets: 62
    edited February 2019
    I’ve tried a lot before making a purchase in this price range and these https://www.opticron.co.uk/our-products/binoculars/explorer-wa-ed-oasis-c-plus-binoculars/explorer-wa-ed-oasis-c-8x42
    were by far the best to my eyes. They are full size, very bright, robust but not a boat anchor and have a brilliantly wide field of view. If you shop around they can be had for £199 at the moment
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  • I need binoculars to read the pension statements!
    LOL
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  • there is also a 10x42 varient if you need the extra reach
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  • there is also a 10x42 varient if you need the extra reach
    Thanks, I'll have a look


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  • Paul_CPaul_C Frets: 7670

    Kate Middleton's Mum better keep her curtains closed.
    "I'll probably be in the bins at Newport Pagnell services."  fretmeister
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  • I like opticron ones too. I used to teach a field biology course & we had opticrons, they didn't break. That's a ringing endorsement in my book. 
    They worked well too & weren't too heavy either .
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  • Paul_C said:

    Kate Middleton's Mum better keep her curtains closed.
    Now I'm twitching!


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  • My advice is go for as wide angle/FOV as you can, as once something is in motion, it’s easier to pick up in view,  as you put the binocs up to your eyes.

    Also, a narrow FOV tends to exaggerate any perceived binocular shake, even when looking at a stationary object.

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  • KeikoKeiko Frets: 962
    I have a friend who works for the RSPB, he uses Opticron. Maybe nip down to your nearest RSPB reserve, they usually have a guy selling binoculars and they let you try them.  
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  • Keiko said:
    I have a friend who works for the RSPB, he uses Opticron. Maybe nip down to your nearest RSPB reserve, they usually have a guy selling binoculars and they let you try them.  
    Oh OK, good shout


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  • NomadNomad Frets: 549
    edited February 2019
    My advice is go for as wide angle/FOV as you can, as once something is in motion, it’s easier to pick up in view,  as you put the binocs up to your eyes.

    Also, a narrow FOV tends to exaggerate any perceived binocular shake, even when looking at a stationary object.

    It's increased magnification that exaggerates shake. For a given angular deviation due to shake, the higher the mag, the more the subject moves around when viewed through the bins (same deal with telephoto lenses in photography).

    Agreed on going for a wide FoV, though. 10x are nearly always narrower than 8x in the same range of bins (113m and 131m for the 10x and 8x Opticrons linked above). The buggers can move quickly, and it's definitely a little skill to be able to look at something with the naked eye, raise the bins and get on target immediately.

    For a given objective lens diameter, increased mag also means less light transmission, which can be quite important for bird watching because dusk can be a good time - they start to congregate when they come in to roost. Also good for peering into dark, shady spaces among trees. 

    8x42 are generally the most popular choice for bird watching.

    When I decided my little Miranda 8x21 things were truly shit, I got a pair of Barr & Stroud Sierras...

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01MG7FNOH/ref=asc_df_B01MG7FNOH58557236/?tag=googshopuk-21&creative=22146&creativeASIN=B01MG7FNOH&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309924713643&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1031386254854729280&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007366&hvtargid=pla-562965215168

    Good budget bins that punch well above their weight. About the only thing they don't have is ED glass. Some chromatic aberration at times, and the eyecups can lose their smoothness (fixable if you can operate a cocktail stick with a tiny bit of Teflon grease on it). Cheap, very cheerful, and they live in my bag as knockabout bins. 

    I later decided to splurge a bit and got a pair of Vanguard Endeavour EDIIs...

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vanguard-Endeavor-ED-II-8x42/dp/B00XWEHOUU/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1550525955&sr=1-2&keywords=vanguard+endeavor+ed+ii

    They've come down a shitload since I got mine. Excellent build quality, and optically superb. Diopter adjustment much easier to use than the friction ring types (clicks to lock / release - much easier to turn when setting it). They're my "I'm going out bird watching" bins.

    In use, the main difference between these two is the amount of turning on the focus wheel - quite a lot on the Sierras, very little on the Endeavours. Lots of turning means you can get very precise focus on static subjects, but can miss birds in flight because they're still blurry by the time they've buggered off. The fast focus on the Endeavours makes it much easier to lock on to a flying bird and get it sharp. In practice, getting the focus precise for static subjects is fine - you just develop a slightly finer feel when you turn the wheel. 


    Nomad
    Nobody loves me but my mother... and she could be jivin' too...

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  • Blimey, you're right into your bins!


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  • DougDoug Frets: 172
    @Nomad so the Barr and Stroud 8x42 are definitely recommended as a starter for twitching/watching the buzzards, kestrels etc,etc local to me?
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  • As someone who does a lot of birding, I'd say you can almost never have enough magnification! I have a set of 8x42s for watching stuff in my (small) back garden, but once I'm out and about, I always use my 10x42s. Most people I know who go birding (including a few who do it for a living) use 10x42s, though they'll usually have a scope with them too.

    I found that I soon got used to changing focus as I was tracking, though it can take a while to perfect bringing your bins up to your eyes whilst keeping track.

    I have a set of the old RSPB brand HD 10x42s which I got very cheap, as my wife works at the RSPB headquarters  I was told by a good few people that I wouldn't get anything better for the money (i.e. at full price). My wife has a set of the RSPB Avocet 10x42s and although I can tell the difference, they're way better than they have any right to be at the £135 asking price.

    My advice would be to get yourself along to your nearest RSPB reserve that has a shop and try out what they have around your budget. They do binocular hires as well and I believe that you get the price of the hire back if you buy a set afterwards, but don't quote me on that!
    My wife asked me to stop singing Wonderwall.
    I said maybe.....
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  • 57Deluxe57Deluxe Frets: 7329
    I did intensive research when I got mine and settled on Leica Trinovid 10x25 and love them to bits. I need glasses for long and close in lower light levels now, but I never have to readjust the Diopter on the Leica's ever. In fact looking through them is like giving your eyes a lovely soothing bath of light. Massive light intake, sharp sharp lenses and compact size.





    <Vintage BOSS Upgrades>
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  • NomadNomad Frets: 549
    Doug said:
    @Nomad so the Barr and Stroud 8x42 are definitely recommended as a starter for twitching/watching the buzzards, kestrels etc,etc local to me?
    I reckon they're as good as it gets at that price point, and probably a fair bit higher. Good overall spec, with things like fully multi-coated optics (means better light transmission), phase corrected prisms (more accurate colour) and waterproof and nitrogen purged (no condensation inside). The eye relief is good as well (better for spectacle wearers). Fit nice in the hand, nice weight, got tethered caps and rain guard. The strap on the pouch was too short, so I cut it off and stuck a longer one on. Can't remember what the original neck strap was like - the RSPB reserves do an own-brand one that's very good and dead cheap (and on both of my bins from day one).

    The Endeavour EDIIs are very well regarded, but the difference between those and the Sierras isn't huge. They are better, but I don't then look through the Sierras and think they've become crap. Binoculars are like most things if you think in terms of a quality/price curve. The cheap and nasty stuff at the bottom can be improved upon by spending only a little more, until you get to a certain point where diminishing returns kick in and you have to spend a lot more to get small improvements. To my mind, the Sierras are at that point where you get a lot for your money, and buying something else for 20 quid more might not get any improvement at all (or could even be poorer).

    It's important to understand that the differences can be subtle, and that some supposed flaws don't really get in the way if you're looking at the subject rather than looking at the performance of the bins.Shit bins can get in the way - the Miranda 8x21s I mentioned failed first time out looking at birds because it was dusk and I couldn't see a damn thing in amongst the trees. It was just grey mush. When I got the Sierras, the difference in light transmission was amazing - I called them my light amplifiers. The difference from the Miranda grot tubes to the Sierras was big, but from the Sierras to the Endeavours was definitely better, but not as big a jump. I went to the local RSPB reserve and had a shot of their Leica and Swarovski bins. I couldn't see any difference with the Swarovskis, and the Leicas 'felt' better rather than having anything discernably visually better - they seemed to be more immersive, as if the use of the binoculars disappeared. In terms of focusing on and resolving distant objects (like a wire fence), they all seemed as good as each other.

    Ultimately, you can't really know what bins will suit you until you get something and get used to them - you need to spend time establishing a reference. I would say the Sierra 8x42 is a good place to start. They're cheap enough to not be a big deal if you decide to change, and easily good enough for backups or as something you're less likely to worry about if living in a daily carry backpack. The Miranda 8x21s on the other hand haven't seen the light of day since I got the Sierras a few years ago - they're tiny, light, and pocket-sized, but they're shit for bird watching.

    Nomad
    Nobody loves me but my mother... and she could be jivin' too...

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