Is the law an ass?

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ShmooShmoo Frets: 109
A while back, I was violently attacked by a group of 5 intoxicated young men in broad daylight as I was carrying my guitar home from a band practice. I have no memory of the event until coming to in a lot of pain and a woman kneeling down and cradling my head which had taken a kicking.and lots of people standing around.

The end result - 2 of the offenders were arrested at the scene of the crime while they were attacking me. The others fled and were not apprehended.

The two that were apprehended, I was told after the fact that they were only given a caution. Part of the police explanation to me in not prosecuting was that 1) The cctv footage was of low quality; 2) They could not be sure that the 2 men arrested for attacking me were the ones that caused my actual injuries (which is odd because 2 off-duty police officers whom I am very grateful to grabbed them while they were attacking me, it was in broad daylight and there were many witnesses ) and 3) they were not sure they could prove my injuries were caused by the attackers (as if it were that my injuries could have been a pre-existing condition).

When the police failed to take what I would consider appropriate responsibility, I decided I would take the 2 men to court in civil proceedings and at least they would have to face me.

To do this, I would need to know the identity of my attackers. I filed a Freedom of Information Act request so I could find out who to take to court and issue proceedings against.

I was denied this information.  The reasoning in withholding the information was that it was to protect these men from me!
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Comments

  • proggyproggy Frets: 5827
    Yes, the law is an ass.
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  • brucegillbrucegill Frets: 710
    f@@@ sake. So sorry to hear this. I've just been through court last week as our dog was killed and I had injuries from the attack (next doors dogs attacked ours). CPS were bloody useless and it fell through with guy getting off. The law is an ass for sure. Hope you've healed up and can get on with your life. 
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  • digitalscreamdigitalscream Frets: 26453
    A similar thing happened to my brother, with exactly the same excuses from CPS - low-quality footage (despite being as close to the camera as it's possible to get without the angle obscuring their faces), and them being unsure of the identification - despite many witnesses being present and the perpetrator being on camera on Facebook bragging about it afterwards.

    The CPS process for deciding which cases are likely to result in conviction is incredibly flawed as from what I've seen. As far as I can tell, unless there's a death or the victim has the means to make life difficult, assault cases rarely seem to get through. However, if there's a sexual assault case, it'll almost always get to court - even if the CPS are made aware of evidence which incontrovertibly proves that it never happened.

    The law isn't an ass, but the implementation of it is - there's a political finger on the scale, and it seems to depend on whether the type of crime in question is the flavour of the month in the media.
    <space for hire>
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  • merlinmerlin Frets: 6595
    edited March 2019
    Law = Ass. No question. 

    Legislation is a wonderful thing for many situations but in your case, things are FUBAR. 
    Hope you're recovering OK....
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 24601
    Shmoo said:


    To do this, I would need to know the identity of my attackers. I filed a Freedom of Information Act request so I could find out who to take to court and issue proceedings against.

    I was denied this information.  The reasoning in withholding the information was that it was to protect these men from me!
    Your solicitor needs to do it.

    Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
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  • axisusaxisus Frets: 28280
    shocking. This sort of thing really pisses me off.
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  • skunkwerxskunkwerx Frets: 6838
    What law? 
    The only easy day, was yesterday...
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  • ShmooShmoo Frets: 109
    Fretwired said:
    Shmoo said:


    To do this, I would need to know the identity of my attackers. I filed a Freedom of Information Act request so I could find out who to take to court and issue proceedings against.

    I was denied this information.  The reasoning in withholding the information was that it was to protect these men from me!
    Your solicitor needs to do it.
    Why pay a solicitor to fill out a form any member of the public can submit for free?
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  • Paul_CPaul_C Frets: 7671

    It's not the law, but the justice system, which has been robbed blind by the Conservative government.

    Police, Probation, Prisons, Courts both Crown and Magistrates, Legal Aid etc. etc.

    If you include all the cuts to social services, youth programmes etc. then you have the state of Britain today, everything running way beyond capacity with only worse things to come. Huge investment is needed just to stand still and that's not going to happen, especially with money being given to Eurotunnel whether Brexit happens or not, and all the other catastrophes about to befall us.

    We won't be returning to a gentler Ye Olde England, but more of a post-apocalypse wasteland where everything is either under water or on fire.
    "I'll probably be in the bins at Newport Pagnell services."  fretmeister
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  • digitalscreamdigitalscream Frets: 26453
    Paul_C said:

    It's not the law, but the justice system, which has been robbed blind by the Conservative government.

    Nah, it's been like this for years. The incident I listed above - which was basically identical to the OP's case - happened just before Blair got re-elected.

    It's not to do with the party in power. It's far more systemic than that - all part of the government of the country, but these are the people we don't get to re-elect every four or five years.
    <space for hire>
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 15476
    an old adage in law is that not only must justice be done it must be seen to be done. And this is important, because if people see justice being done, they are less likely to turn to vigilantism, but if they are not then I fear it will lead to an increase in violent crime as people will a, be more likely to carry weapons to protect themselves or b, be more likely to carry out revenge attacks. 
    To the OP, really sorry to hear about what happened to you, that sucks. 

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • Sorry this happened to you. 

    Yes, the law is a total ass. 
    'Vot eva happened to the Transylvanian Tvist?'
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  • KilgoreKilgore Frets: 8599
    That is really shit. Hope you're recovering ok.
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 24601
    Shmoo said:
    Fretwired said:
    Shmoo said:


    To do this, I would need to know the identity of my attackers. I filed a Freedom of Information Act request so I could find out who to take to court and issue proceedings against.

    I was denied this information.  The reasoning in withholding the information was that it was to protect these men from me!
    Your solicitor needs to do it.
    Why pay a solicitor to fill out a form any member of the public can submit for free?
    Because the legal system owes your attackers a duty of care. What if all you wanted to do is get their names and go round with some mates and kick the shit of them. If you want to take them to court then go through the due process.

    Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
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  • fretmeisterfretmeister Frets: 23937
    Fretwired said:
    Shmoo said:
    Fretwired said:
    Shmoo said:


    To do this, I would need to know the identity of my attackers. I filed a Freedom of Information Act request so I could find out who to take to court and issue proceedings against.

    I was denied this information.  The reasoning in withholding the information was that it was to protect these men from me!
    Your solicitor needs to do it.
    Why pay a solicitor to fill out a form any member of the public can submit for free?
    Because the legal system owes your attackers a duty of care. What if all you wanted to do is get their names and go round with some mates and kick the shit of them. If you want to take them to court then go through the due process.
    This.

    Plod will disclose information to solicitors far easier than to the general public. The solicitors will be required to complete a whole bunch of forms and there will be a fee to pay.

    With some forces there will be a finding fee and then a document release fee on top.

    But even then - if the solicitor is unable to say why he wants the information then plod won't release it.

    So you need to be contemplating a private prosecution, or (easier) a claim for personal injury damages against the alleged attackers.

    Don't bother with the PP as the CPS will step in and shut it down in most cases. A injury claim following assault has a lower standard of proof that must be reached. 
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  • jdgmjdgm Frets: 850
    edited March 2019
    Definitely write to your MP and copy the letter to the Chief Constable of wherever you are.
    They will have to acknowledge it.

    You could also consider sending a copy to the editor of your biggest local newspaper, however they may not be interested.

    But definitely to the MP and CC.
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  • ShmooShmoo Frets: 109
    Fretwired said:
    Shmoo said:
    Fretwired said:
    Shmoo said:


    To do this, I would need to know the identity of my attackers. I filed a Freedom of Information Act request so I could find out who to take to court and issue proceedings against.

    I was denied this information.  The reasoning in withholding the information was that it was to protect these men from me!
    Your solicitor needs to do it.
    Why pay a solicitor to fill out a form any member of the public can submit for free?
    Because the legal system owes your attackers a duty of care. What if all you wanted to do is get their names and go round with some mates and kick the shit of them. If you want to take them to court then go through the due process.
    I have been following due process to the letter. I was told I needed to make a Freedom of Information Act request and I did. My comment was simply about fees. Making the request is simple and I saw no reason to pay a solicitor to fill in the blanks to obtain information for me in exactly the same way I was asked to in the first instance. I would also be concerned that paying a solicitor to obtain the exact same information for me (which I would be privy to anyway) may not only cost me dearly, but also be responded to with the same answer, which is, of course, quite possible. 
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  • ShmooShmoo Frets: 109
    jdgm said:
    Definitely write to your MP and copy the letter to the Chief Constable of wherever you are.
    They will have to acknowledge it.

    You could also consider sending a copy to the editor of your biggest local newspaper, however they may not be interested.

    But definitely to the MP and CC.
    Thanks, I attended a surgery that my MP held locally and spoke with him in person. He told me that he would be contacting the police about the matter on my behalf.
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  • sev112sev112 Frets: 2739
    jdgm said:
    Definitely write to your MP and copy the letter to the Chief Constable of wherever you are.
    They will have to acknowledge it.

    You could also consider sending a copy to the editor of your biggest local newspaper, however they may not be interested.

    But definitely to the MP and CC.
    ^ This
    also, your local paper would be very interest3d most of the time

    i find itbincredulous that if someone has a low speed motor accident but one of the drivers hurts their neck, that police have to be called, and names/ addresses and insurance details need to be swapped,

    But if you are violently assaulted you are not allowed to know who did it??!
    that is what you should put in your letter to your MP and the local paper

    Good luck mate

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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 24601
    Shmoo said:
    Because the legal system owes your attackers a duty of care. What if all you wanted to do is get their names and go round with some mates and kick the shit of them. If you want to take them to court then go through the due process.

    I have been following due process to the letter. I was told I needed to make a Freedom of Information Act request and I did. My comment was simply about fees. Making the request is simple and I saw no reason to pay a solicitor to fill in the blanks to obtain information for me in exactly the same way I was asked to in the first instance. I would also be concerned that paying a solicitor to obtain the exact same information for me (which I would be privy to anyway) may not only cost me dearly, but also be responded to with the same answer, which is, of course, quite possible. 
    It's got nothing to do with due process. You were never going to get that sort of information - you're attackers have rights. If you wish to take out a private prosecution then you will probably need to approach a solicitor who can make a case for why the information is needed.

    Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
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