Home-use Stereo Power Amp Ideas

Grumpyrocker

After some advice/ideas please folks. 

I've not been playing much in recent months - but in the last week or two I'm back in the groove. But I'm finding myself quite happy to use my fab little Zoom G3 thanks to its simplicity, many effects and great stereo sound. I've been playing with headphones and occasionally with PC speakers. I've really come to like playing in stereo - gives more depth when practising at home without a whole band to fill out the space.

So - what I'd like to do is run my G3 or POD HD into my 212 cab which is loaded with V30 speakers. Normally I use the cab in mono 8ohms with my Laney Ironheart amp. And I could use that setup with my modellers - running into the Laney's power amp. But this setup isn't stereo. I can run the cab as two separate 16ohm speakers as stereo - but I don't have a stereo power amp.

What I'm after is a cheap and cheerful way of getting my stereo sound from my modellers into my amp. I'm trying to find the cheapest, least complicated way that doesn't sound like shit. Rack power amps seem quite pricey and overkill given this is home practice, I won't use this setup live. I did consider a pair of 22 Calibre pedals - but that's a fiddly approach requiring two power supplies.

Are there any other products you could recommend I look at? If I can't find something suitable I'm tempted to try one of those new ID Core amps from Blackstar. I can't drive my cab with one, but I'd have stereo sound and could even run my other modellers into it's aux/mp3 input if I wanted.

Anyway, over to you...

steamabacus

I'd get an old hifi power amp if it's just for home practice.

Grumpyrocker

steamabacus said:

I'd get an old hifi power amp if it's just for home practice.

To drive a guitar speaker cab?

steamabacus

I can't see a problem. It probably wouldn't deliver full power into 16 ohms (most are designed for 4 ohms and up) but an amp's an amp, really. You'd have to make up some cables - jack to phono from the Zoom into the amp, bare cable (or banana plugs) to jack from the amp into the guitar cab.

I'm assuming you'll be using amp models on the Zoom.

ecc83

Yes, look for a cheap hi fi amp at Cash Generators or, in my case, British Heart Foundation where I have bought two super PC monitors, one £15 and other £25.

Even quite modest amps are 50Wpch these days into 8 R so you are likely to get around 30+30W into 16, that will be pretty loud into V30s!

Err? Where TH are you Grumps? I am downsizing and giving things away....Paul? Speakers mate???

Dave.

ICBM

Grumpyrocker said:

steamabacus said:

I'd get an old hifi power amp if it's just for home practice.

To drive a guitar speaker cab?

As Dave said…

Yes. Anything in the 25W-100W per channel range will drive those speakers very well, even at the wrong impedance.

Try a charity shop (some do take electrical goods) or Cash Converter. You should get something perfectly good for £25 or less. Pioneer, Sony, JVC, Hitachi, Panasonic, Rotel etc all made excellent kit which is worth next to nothing now.

ToneControl

I would use this:  £155 new - Behringer A500

http://www.studiospares.com/power-amplifiers/behringer-a500-amplifier/invt/380160?source=215_74&gclid=CMuNxNDTh74CFYbMtAod9ykAOg

I have one, seems quite good. Currently I don't use it, but it's to heavy to send anywhere!

review:

http://www.theaudiocritic.com/plog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=22

Grumpyrocker

Thanks folks. I have a knackered old stereo that might do the trick then - the amp bit works. I'll just have to sort out some cables.

Danny1969

I used to gig with a Kitty Hawk pre amp into a  Rotel hi fi amp into a Marshall 4 x 12. Got some funny looks but hey ho

Go into the CD \ aux or similar input but not phono as the phono input will be too sensitive for line level

ROOG

/\ @Danny1969, gave you a LOL, cos your comment about funny looks made me smile, but hey if it works for you why not. Theres a lot of snobbery associated around kit.

chrispy108

Can I bridge the channels on an old hifi-amp to drive a mono speaker?

ICBM

chrispy108 said:

Can I bridge the channels on an old hifi-amp to drive a mono speaker?

Not a good idea really. Just use one channel.

chrispy108

Is it ok to leave the second channel without a load on it?

ICBM

chrispy108 said:

Is it ok to leave the second channel without a load on it?

Yes, fine - although best just not to give it any signal. Set the balance knob fully to the channel you want to use, just to be sure.

ecc83

ToneControl said:

I would use this:  £155 new - Behringer A500

http://www.studiospares.com/power-amplifiers/behringer-a500-amplifier/invt/380160?source=215_74&gclid=CMuNxNDTh74CFYbMtAod9ykAOg

I have one, seems quite good. Currently I don't use it, but it's to heavy to send anywhere!

review:

http://www.theaudiocritic.com/plog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=22

No. Despite Behringer being "creative" with the model number that amp still puts out 175W into 8 ohms both channels driven. I would estimate that to be around 80-90W into 16 R "one lunged" clean and twice that if seriously clipped.

Celestion V30S are tough, but not that bloody tough!

Dave.

ToneControl

if you were to use a higher-power SS amp, you just run it with the volume turned down on the front

It's worth considering that using a weedy hifi amp and getting a bit enthusiastic might result in hard clipping, which pushes a lot of power into higher frequencies, and drives speakers in a different way to tube amps. This tends to blow tweeters up, and although I suspect v30s would be resilient, don't assume that lower power amps can't hurt speakers 

ICBM

ecc83 said:

Despite Behringer being "creative" with the model number that amp still puts out 175W into 8 ohms both channels driven. I would estimate that to be around 80-90W into 16 R "one lunged" clean and twice that if seriously clipped.

Celestion V30S are tough, but not that bloody tough!

Even I wouldn't worry too much about that, at home volume - there's no way you'd get it up to dangerous levels for the speakers through a pair of V30s without being aware it was LOUD!

I wouldn't spend £155 on an amp at least fifty times as powerful as you really need though, when you could buy something only ten times as powerful as you need for about a fifth of the price . Or something like that .

For reference, I use an old "hi-fi" cabinet (about the size of a fridge!) of some incredible sensitivity up in the V30 range for background music in my workshop… driven directly from the *headphone* output of my computer. Maximum power 50mW - clean - and it's easily loud enough to be too much, in the evening. A whole watt through a V30 is close to deafening in a domestic situation.

ToneControl said:

It's worth considering that using a weedy hifi amp and getting a bit enthusiastic might result in hard clipping, which pushes a lot of power into higher frequencies, and drives speakers in a different way to tube amps. This tends to blow tweeters up, and although I suspect v30s would be resilient, don't assume that lower power amps can't hurt speakers

There's really no danger at all with V30s - out of all speakers, they're some of the very least likely to be damaged by distortion - even with a solid state amp. They are harder on speakers than valve amps, but it's actually the cone excursion at low frequencies from hard clipping (effectively approaching a square wave at the fundamental) which is probably more dangerous to a guitar speaker. It's a totally different matter with anything with a crossover and tweeter though, yes.

ecc83

Oh! I agree that combination is going to be bloody loud, actually dangerously so because 90W into a V30 will produce around 120dBSPL, and I also agree that no sane person would turn things up that far...But, ***t'appen, people catch jack plug tips on strings, screens can go O/C.

Then, as you point out IC, it is the LF that is likely to damage a guitar speaker and connecting one to a DC coupled amp with that many amps behind it is just asking for trouble IMHO. But of course, we must never forget the old fashioned fuse?

Dave.

ESBlonde

I'd go ebay for a cheap used 'DJ' quality power amp. It might hiss a bit when opened up but a 150w a side on tickover will be dynamic and dirt cheap with no problems of connectivity.

something cheap like this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/B-Stock-Skytec-SPL400-Power-Amplifier-PA-DJ-Disco-Hifi-Amp-2x-200W-/111339097988?pt=UK_MusicalInstr_Amplifiers_RL&hash=item19ec53cf84