Anyone actually managed to try or buy one of the new marshall studio amps??

monquixote

martinw said:

ICBM said:

 But it does confirm what I've always thought, that power scaling sounds more like a master volume control and not as good as attenuation...

It might confirm your opinion in your own mind, but that's all!

I find it hard to understand how you can say that, but then I'm speaking for my own PS installations and can't answer for some others, and I have heard some less-than-great iterations of VVR/VAC etc. The way it appears to be implemented in that amp for instance, isn't what I would call good.

Most of the installations I do have both PS and  master volume, as I favour the 2-knob system. Like you I think PS or attenuation is best served by balancing against the MV, especially at low volumes.

However on an amp with both PS and MV, you can directly compare the effect of one and the other, and how anyone could think they sound anything like the same confuses me.

Anyway, this is off-topic, so apologies, but I feel someone has to contradict @ICBM now and then, otherwise these things become accepted wisdom. I also don't have an issue with JJ preamp valves.

By the way, I'm not a zealot for PS, despite having installed it hundreds of times. It's a useful tool that some like and some don't, some have a use for, some don't.

Having owned an MJW with power scaling and MV I completely agree.

Each has its own character and you get the best results by blending the two.

ICBM

riffpowers said:

You've always spoken highly of the rocker 30, 
I've been playing through a borrowed rocker 30 combo quite a bit lately at band practices.
I find that the EQ seems to be very "warm" sounding, and I'm struggling to get the kind of upper mid detail and punch that you get from a typical" brit" sounding amp. 
Does that sound about right?? I'd like to get a bit more upper mid sizzle in there if I could.

If it's the combo, does it have the stock V30? That's the wrong speaker for it in my opinion... it needs a G12H-30 or Creamback 75. Obviously that's not practical if you're only borrowing it though.

The head version through a bigger cab just sounds better anyway.

It doesn't sound like a Marshall though, for sure - it's darker and chunkier, and even though it has a 'Marshall type' tone stack which is different from the classic Oranges, it's voiced much more like one overall. The Laney LA30 is also darker and grittier - the Laney Supergroup circuit is a copy of a Marshall Super Bass, not Super Lead.

martinw said:

It might confirm your opinion in your own mind, but that's all! .

Well, I thought it sounded like a post-PI 'fixed MV' - admittedly also having seen where the relay is on the PCB - and so it wasn't a huge surprise to find it was actually power scaling... so I think there is more similarity than you do .

martinw said:

I find it hard to understand how you can say that, but then I'm speaking for my own PS installations and can't answer for some others, and I have heard some less-than-great iterations of VVR/VAC etc. The way it appears to be implemented in that amp for instance, isn't what I would call good.

Most of the installations I do have both PS and  master volume, as I favour the 2-knob system. Like you I think PS or attenuation is best served by balancing against the MV, especially at low volumes.

However on an amp with both PS and MV, you can directly compare the effect of one and the other, and how anyone could think they sound anything like the same confuses me.

I don't think it sounds the same, but I think PS sounds much more like a master volume (specifically a post-PI one) than it does like attenuation - almost certainly because neither give you the power supply dynamics that an attenuator does.

But it's not just that, because it's audible at low volume too, when the power supply isn't working hard. Having played one of your amps with both PS and master volume, to me it sounded *far* better with the PS up full and the master volume low than the other way round.... in fact I would never have wanted to use the power scaling at all.

Given the choice, master volume combined with an attenuator gives me the sounds I like best, and if I had to pick just one it's master volume.

martinw said:

Anyway, this is off-topic, so apologies, but I feel someone has to contradict @ICBM now and then, otherwise these things become accepted wisdom.

Hopefully not! Especially since I should have checked before I came to the wrong conclusion at first .

Jonathanthomas83

The GAS is strong with this one. I want a JCM800 and the plexi! The video's sound amazing!

Question, why would one choose the Jubilee over the JCM800? What's the main differences, please? I always thought they were the same amp, I'm obviously ill-informed.

martinw

ICBM said:

I don't think it sounds the same, but I think PS sounds much more like a master volume (specifically a post-PI one) than it does like attenuation - almost certainly because neither give you the power supply dynamics that an attenuator does.

But it's not just that, because it's audible at low volume too, when the power supply isn't working hard. Having played one of your amps with both PS and master volume, to me it sounded *far* better with the PS up full and the master volume low than the other way round.... in fact I would never have wanted to use the power scaling at all.

...and I would never recommend  using PS in either of those ways. (Just kidding, I know that's  not what you meant, but it's worth reiterating the point about blending).

The power supply dynamics thing is undeniable, but that tells me where you're at with it, and for most people I think the addition of output valve overdrive far outweighs the loss (when applicable, and it isn't always, before that becomes a 'fact') of power supply dynamics.

All methods of volume reduction have pros and cons, and we have different opinions on which we prefer, and that's fine.

ICBM

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Question, why would one choose the Jubilee over the JCM800? What's the main differences, please? I always thought they were the same amp, I'm obviously ill-informed.

The JCM800 (2203 circuit) is a single-channel master volume amp based on the non-master-volume circuit but with the two input channels in series not parallel. There are other minor differences but that's basically it.

The Jubilee is a channel switching amp with a completely different preamp circuit using diode clipping (in both Rhythm Clip and Lead modes), and with a different tone stack not driven by a cathode-follower as in the other two.

Jonathanthomas83

ICBM said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Question, why would one choose the Jubilee over the JCM800? What's the main differences, please? I always thought they were the same amp, I'm obviously ill-informed.

The JCM800 (2203 circuit) is a single-channel master volume amp based on the non-master-volume circuit but with the two input channels in series not parallel. There are other minor differences but that's basically it.

The Jubilee is a channel switching amp with a completely different preamp circuit using diode clipping (in both Rhythm Clip and Lead modes), and with a different tone stack not driven by a cathode-follower as in the other two.

That's great, thank you, @ICBM!! I think I'm sold on the JCM800! Appreciate you chiming in on this :-)

HHwarner

Iv found this showing Gut shots of the SC20h JCM800. Some fairly negative comments but it looks reasonably well made to me for a mass produced amp
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/marshall-sc20h-jcm800-gut-shots.2016098/

riffpowers

Give the choice of head or 1x12 combo, I wondered if anyone thought the 10" speaker was a good idea??

Just asking cos I like combos but I've never owned a 10" combo.

ICBM

riffpowers said:

Give the choice of head or 1x12 combo, I wondered if anyone thought the 10" speaker was a good idea??

Only Marshall... no-one else!

monquixote

It's basically cost them a sale from me.

I would have seriously considered the plexi combo but with a 10" no way.

TTBZ

Jonathanthomas83 said:

The GAS is strong with this one. I want a JCM800 and the plexi! The video's sound amazing!

Question, why would one choose the Jubilee over the JCM800? What's the main differences, please? I always thought they were the same amp, I'm obviously ill-informed.

I always say this but I think a Jubilee sounds like a boosted 800, a bit smoother and with more gain available. The EQ is much more effective as well, the EQ doesn't really do a great deal on an 800 in comparison. The Jubilee will do bright, dark, scooped, middy, thin, fat. Whatever you want really. For me it does "that" Marshall sound that you expect to get from a JCM800, but in reality they're a lot thinner and brighter than they appear on classic records. Honestly through the same cab on rhythm clip you can get the Mini Jub sounding really close to the Studio Classic, then you have the bonus of a built in lead boost. There's a lot to be said for the simplicity of the 800 as well though.

Can you tell the Jubilee is my favourite amp in either size - if I had the space I'd have a 100w half stack for sure. For some reason they have a reputation of being bright or fizzy but I don't find that to be the case at all, at least not when you get the master above 5-6 which also happens to be a good volume to start at for rehearsing and gigging.

@monquixote The 10" in the combos actually isn't too bad - try one out before making your mind up. Of course everything sounds better through more than one speaker though.

Fenderish

ICBM said:

I thought so from where the relay is on the PCB, but I was definitely wrong! Earlier posts now edited .

Absolutely no glory for me, I knew this because I read the explanation by the original designer of the mini jubilee (which as the same power amp PS tech) on another forum. Yet, the standby/20/5 switch relies on two different taps from the mains transformer so that was another clue.

ICBM

TTBZ said:

@monquixote The 10" in the combos actually isn't too bad - try one out before making your mind up. Of course everything sounds better through more than one speaker though.

It's a simple fact that it won't sound the same as a Greenback or a G12H-30, G12-65 or even a G12T-75. Marshall say they tested it and the 10" sounded better - but given the voicings they choose for most of their modern amps I just don't believe their idea of 'better' is the same as those of us who love vintage Marshalls. In any case, it's a bit irrelevant - why did they even consider trying it at all? You could have asked *anyone* who was interested in these amps whether they would prefer a 10" speaker and the answer would have been no - it's simply wrong if you're going for the classic Plexi or JCM800 sound, which surely is the whole point...

And also probably less sensitive, which matters with a 20W amp you might want to gig with.

Fenderish said:

Yet, the standby/20/5 switch relies on two different taps from the mains transformer so that was another clue.

Yes, I missed spotting that in the bundle of wiring.

soma1975

Having taken my Marshall Astoria Dual to the Woking fretboarders meetup today to turn it up a bit it's so frickin loud it is insane for a 30w amp - would easily have given the 70s JMP 100w head in the recording room a run for its money -  which actually has me thinking the 10" classic combo might be a far better bet for something that doesn't break my back and takes up less room in my house. 

funhouse

Apologies for hijacking this thread but if anyone is interested I have an SV20H for sale in the classifieds section.

HandwrittenHero

soma1975 said:

Having taken my Marshall Astoria Dual to the Woking fretboarders meetup today to turn it up a bit it's so frickin loud it is insane for a 30w amp - would easily have given the 70s JMP 100w head in the recording room a run for its money -  which actually has me thinking the 10" classic combo might be a far better bet for something that doesn't break my back and takes up less room in my house. 

Or the 1974x has been where I’ve (hopefully - awaiting a replacement one) ended up - handwired feels premium enough to justify it being little bit pricier than head and cab but bit more grab and go friendly...40lb is juuuust about doable in the one hand and guitar in the other. It’s definitely a good step below the Astoria Custom in volume - that thing was definitely silly loud. 30w and an efficient speaker goes a long way, 18w and an inefficient one should hopefully get some nice crunchiness without being the dick who drowns other people out.

soma1975

Never tried a 1974x.

TTBZ

1974x is cool for classic rock type stuff (almost bought one a while back!) but for me the studio range is where it's at for low watt.

Ossyrocks

I tried the plexi yesterday in Reidy’s Blackburn. Head running into the 2x12.

I loved it. Very impressed. It had a surprising amount of gain to me. I have had a lot of old school marshalls inc 60’s plexis, but I never got that amount of gain out of them unless they were modded. This is a good thing btw. With an historic Les Paul, I could get singing, sustaining lead notes tailing off into beautiful harmonic feedback, all at levels which won’t upset people. In full power mode, it’s loud enough for any gig I am likely to play too. Jumpering the channels is a must too.

I want the head and 2x12, I really do.

Rob

Jonathanthomas83

Got the Plexi and now am gassing for a higher gain Marshall! The SV20H is superb. It's got gain, a fair bit, as said above, but I can't help thinking that the 800 or one of the small Friedman heads will have gain levels more comfortable for my style of play. For now I want to keep the Plexi for classic rock and blues, sounds stunning in that range.

Does anyone know just home much more gain the SC20H (800) has over the SV20H? Does it get to hard rock/80s hair metal territory? I kind of want to complete the set! Ha.