The 1x12 vs 2x12 combo debate

Travisthedog

I'm in the market for a new gigging amp and I've steered away from 1x12 combos as the "knowledge" was that they don't have the thump that you get from a 2x12.

Is this a myth? What are the forum thoughts on this. My Egnater 2x12 seems to have plenty of bottom end but compared to our lead guitarists 2x12 blackstar, it seems quite waspy.

What's the beef chaps

trolley

I found that a 1x12" struggles against a loud drummer, whereas a 2x12" pushes more air & sounds 'louder', even if it isn't.

But there's the weight difference to consider - which is why I swapped to a head & 2x12" separates

ICBM

It's true - although an oversized, heavily-built 1x12" will get close... but with almost the same size and weight penalty as a 2x12", so I'm not sure you're gaining much.

If you want thump, projection and portability, get a 1x12" open-back combo and a closed-back (or ported) extension cabinet, probably with a heavier-sounding speaker in it. That will give you effectively a vertical 2x12", and much more thump from the cabinet.

ecc83

Too many variables to be dogmatic but what is a fact is that two drive units will deliver more ultimate sound level than one  of the same sensitivity but twice the power rating.

This is due to Thermal Compression. This kicks in at about 1/2 rated power and the voice coil heats up and its resistance increases. That means the amp can no longer push a much current through the coil and power is proportional to current squared.

Two 50W drivers will probabaly deliver 6dB more ultimate SPL over a single 100W speaker of the same sensitivity but as stated..LOT of ifs and buts. A 2X 12 stood on end will also give you a small "gain" due to the improved radiation pattern which will start to kick in above about 900Hz.

Dave.

Maynehead

I went from gigging a Mesa standard 2x12 horizontal with Mesa V30s, which weighed a ton, to an Orange PPC 1x12 with a Celestion Century Vintage neo, which is only 14kg.

To me, the compromise was totally worth it. In fact I find the 1x12 less beamy than the 2x12, and is easily loud enough to keep up with the drummer. Tone wise I get all the thump and bass response with the closed back Orange that I need. Compared to the 2x12 I did not hear an obvious downgrade in the sound quality.

So now the Mesa only comes out for the big stage, and the Orange is the default or everything else.

wrinkleygit

If you can lift it 2x12 every time 

sweepy

Try a 2x10

Jalapeno

or a 2x10 ....

made the switch to head + 2 1x12s long ago, head + 1 or 2 2x10s if venue warrants it.

Also 1x12 combo plus extension cab is a good compromise on weight and sound spread.

vasselmeyer

A 2x12 definitely gives more spread and a better bass response, I guess because there's more air in the cab. Actually the best sound is a 2x12 in a vertical configuration, and only takes up the same floor space as a 1x12 cab.

Haych

I used to gig with a 1x12 combo plus a 1x12 extension cab, one stage left and one stage right and was very happy with my sound.  It also spread my sound around the stage and made it easier for the rest of the band to hear me without needing to turn up too loud.  It was also quite portable.

My last few gigs before being forced into a gig-hiatus was with a 212 combo and I wasn't nearly as pleased with its sonic performance.  I had several people tell me that in certain parts of the venue it was barely audible but in others quite deafening.

I've never played one but I recall reading the Guitarist Mag review of the Mesa Rectoverb 1x12 combo.  The reviewer seemed blown away by it's ability to give a 4x12-esq thump.

If I was to get back into gigging now I'd probably seek out a couple of open back 1x12 cabs again, or maybe even a couple of vertical 2x12 cabs, although I think my dream rig would be to run a Super Reverb and Bassman reissue side by side  

Nerine

I thinks it's to do with the amplifier, the cabinet construction and the speaker. So basically everything. 

Case in point, the Diezel Einstein combo I have is a 1x12 open back format. I put a Creamback in it. 

It has more low end than is ever needed and in no way ever sounds thin. It sounds much fuller and richer than my band-mates JCM900 into a 1936 2x12, and it also sits in the mix much better.  

Im actually gravitating towards the 1x12 open back combo format a lot more nowadays. In a band mix, I actually find they occupy a more useful sonic space than bigger amps/cabs. I also find them less beamy. I have a Bogner O/S 2x12 which are more or less pretty much the "best" 2x12 cabs you can buy. When walking around the room, the guitar sound changes a lot more than if I am using one of my combos... 

Make of that what you will, but the days of me ever using a 4x12 are long gone. Unless the Thin Lizzy tribute band takes off, then I'll likely have to buy a Greenback loaded Marshall 4x12 so the image is about right... But that's about it. It wouldn't be a tonal consideration as such. 

fastonebaz

I gig with a 1x12 combo plus with a 1x12 extension so it's like having a 2x12. Sounds immense and easily loud enough with the drummer. 

ICBM

It's worth repeating that the 'beaminess' of 2x12"s is because they're horizontal. If they're vertical they're actually marginally less directional even than a 1x12", as well as projecting better - in fact a vertical 4x12" column would be even better - it's becoming a 'line array', where the beam is tightened along the axis of the speaker centrelines and widened at right angles to it. This is counterintuitive to most people, and there's still resistance to a vertical cab 'looking wrong', but it really does work better, as well as taking up less space on stage.

riffpowers

Funny thing is I used to use my marshall 2045 vertically cos I thought it worked better that way when I was gigging with my tiny terror hardwired. 

I wonder what are the pros and cons between using 2 1x12's or 1 2x12 vertical cab??

Haych

I used to use my 1x12 vertically, too, but it made no difference!

I’m here all week folks!

Jalapeno

Only issue for me in using 2x10 or 2x12 vertically If they're built that way and not offset, is one of stability. Big heavy amp on not so heavy column ....

(Cue comment about me at a Gasfest of yore pulling over one of Hayden's lovely amps - it was stupidly short lead !!!!!!! )

riffpowers

Haych said:

I used to use my 1x12 vertically, too, but it made no difference!

I’m here all week folks!

I've struggled to stay vertical at some gigs too!!!

Fishboy7

My Victoria 2x12 is lighter than most 1x12s.

You also have the option of mixing speakers - although I have't experimented  

bbill335

sweepy said:

Try a 2x10

2x10 or die

ICBM

bbill335 said:

8x10 or die

FTFY...

prlgmnr

Haych said:

I used to use my 1x12 vertically, too, but it made no difference!

I’m here all week folks!

You've got to stand it on one corner.