Les Paul for the uninitiated

Marshall_stax

If I can add my two pennies worth. I popped in to GG in Camden today and ended up playing a Les Paul HP. Far and away the nicest LP I've ever played. It proper blew me away. As such, now I think I want one. 

Worth a look.

terada

jonnyscaramanga said:

All you "the Custom Shop is miles ahead" brigade—what do you like about them so much?

Loads of things really, but the first few that come to mind are:

1. Neck angle (which enables the stopbar to be set all the way down)
2. Neck shape
3. Unchambered weight being generally pretty low for a les paul.

That and (and this is just in my experience), all the historic model gibsons that been through my hands have had rock solid tuning, but I have had real issues with G string tuning on USA models.

Obviously you can get superb instruments from the USA line, and I've been through enough R8's to know that they aren't all created equal. But I am yet to play one where the neck angle is duff, and this is far from the case with the USA ones.

As for the little things, there's the thinner binding which doesn't snag the high E; no PCB's; long tenon; less blingy finish/inlays/logo; custombuckers; etc etc.

TimmyO

jonnyscaramanga said:

All you "the Custom Shop is miles ahead" brigade—what do you like about them so much?

I sold a Historic R4 and my only regret is that I didn't ask for more money. I've also played a friend's R9 and spent the whole time wishing I was playing my own Classic Plus instead. I haven't figured out if my Classics are outstanding examples, the Custom Shops I've played are a bit average, or I'm a luddite.

That said, @TimmyO 's R7 is a bit special. But even that just seems to me to be mainly because it's a really great bit of wood, rather than anything particular about the build or spec. I suspect it's like Strats—maybe your chances of finding a great example are better among the Custom Shop ones, but if you play enough of them you can find a gem almost anywhere in the range.

If I were buying a bang-for-buck Les Paul, I'd look for a 90s Studio with an ebony fingerboard. I think they look cool and they're well under a grand.

Yeah I've come to realise over the years that my R7 is a bit special. People who've played More great guitars than I've hd hot dinners have remarked upon it, notably among them Nevile Marten of Guutarist/Guitar Techniques/Marty Wikde fame - and he was Rosetti's main repairer/setter-upper for years so played most Gibsons in the country while they were distributor. 

Then Mick (TPS) Taylor borrowed it one time and put it on the cover of Guitarist mag.

Then more recently I read some articles that mentioned a supposed "Good wood" era at Gibson which if true would fit this timeframe (it's a '96)

Anyway, yeah I think it's just one where the sum of the parts really came together so wouldn't claim that all Cuatom Shop R guitars are this good.

crunchman

ICBM said:

jonnyscaramanga said:

All you "the Custom Shop is miles ahead" brigade—what do you like about them so much?

I sold a Historic R4 and my only regret is that I didn't ask for more money. I've also played a friend's R9 and spent the whole time wishing I was playing my own Classic Plus instead. I haven't figured out if my Classics are outstanding examples, the Custom Shops I've played are a bit average, or I'm a luddite.

I think there's just a lot of variation. I don't doubt you've got a good Classic, although personally I've never played one I liked at all. I've never played a bad Trad, but they undoubtedly exist too. I've played good and bad Standards, but that's as likely because I've played far more of them than either of the other two models as because they're inherently more variable,

The R9 in the shop recently was nice enough, but the Trad was better-sounding and playing for a third of the price - unless either appearance or vintage accuracy is what you want as the top priority, in which case the R9 was better.

A friend had two R7 Customs - one was outstanding, the other was only average. For some reason the average one just would not stay in tune either - both things may have been because it had an overly-steep neck angle and high bridge, which is one of the bigger variables with any of them.

You are right.  They all vary.

The first Gibson Les Paul I bought was a Custom Shop (I'd previously owned an Ibanex Lawsuit model, a Japanese Tokai, and a PRS Singlecut).  With hindsight, that one wasn't very good.  I changed the bridge pickup on it because I wasn't happy with the sound.  I then went on holiday in the US and I was trying out pedals in a shop (same price in dollars over there as pounds here).  The guitar I was using to try the pedals was a Les Paul Traditional, and it was much better than that Custom Shop one.

I came back to the UK, and decided to sell the Custom Shop guitar, buy a Traditional and liberate a bit of cash.  Went to Guitar Village when they had the annual end of year Gibson blowout, and had Traditionals at a ridiculous price.  Tried a bunch of them, and wasn't blown away by any of them.  None of them seemed as good as the one I had tried in the US.  Tried a second hand R8 they had, and it was in a different league tonally - so I bought that.

That R8 sounded really good, but I had some problems with it because the neck angle was too steep.  The bridge wasn't quite in the right place either, and I had intonation issues as a result.  I ended up selling it, and was without a Les Paul for a while.

Fast forward to the big blowout last year, and I bought an R9.  That is a great guitar in all respects. Gratuitous photo:

Of the ones I've tried, I would actually place the Traditional that I played in the US above the first two Custom Shop guitars that I had.  Tonally, the R8 was great but the neck angle and bridge placement on it were definitely an issue.

I'd say there is a higher proportion of really good ones from the Custom Shop.  My experience is maybe 1 in 3 Custom shop guitars are really great, but that's a limited sample.  Based on what I've played, it might be 1 in 8 really good ones from the regular factory production.

rico

johnl said:

I suspect most responses you'll get here will be variations on "try a load and see what you like" which I'd definitely recommend. That said some basic bits of advice:

1. Avoid pretty much everything from 2015. A number of very unpopular changes were made that year (massively wide fretboards, weird facsimile of Les Paul's signature on the headstock, "Chairman Les" hologram on the rear"). That said if you try one and none of those things bother you they can be had very cheaply.

2. Over the years Gibson have experimented with different methods of weight relief; some of which are shown below:



There's no right or wrong answer there but certainly the lighter and more chambered guitars can sound a bit different to the traditional solid ones. 

3. The Les Paul standard isn't all that standard and for a number of years has been Gibson's testing ground. As such these are where you're more likely to find coil splits or other interesting switching options, modern weight relief, robotuners and so on. The "traditional" is generally more of a traditional spec and the classic is similar to the traditional but usually with more interesting pickup options - i.e. P90s etc.

4. HP vs T. For a while Gibson had two versions of every model in the lineup; the "High Performance" models had a more contoured heel, robotuners and a lot more bling. The traditional models were....more traditional.

5. Almost all models since around 2015ish have had PCBs in place of traditional wiring in the cavity. Worth confirming if this is something likely to bother you (though it's an easy and cheap job to rip it out and replace with a proper loom).

You should easily be able to find a good standard for around the £1000 mark. Mid to late 90s Standards seem to be particularly well-regarded. 

There is no way you'll get a standard for less than £1500 in todays market. Even headstock breaks are around that price.

johnl

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gibson-Les-Paul-Standard-USA-Stunning/273765672674?epid=1237015715&hash=item3fbdb4a6e2:g:o3IAAOSwfl1cg-lR

That one above sold for £1150 two days ago

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=les paul standard&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2045573.m1684

£1200 for that one

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gibson-Les-Paul-Standard-Ebony-1993/233167991855?hash=item3649e5342f:g:ieEAAOSw~9Rci3mW

£1300 for that one. You can very definitely get a Standard for under £1500 and prices on here are even better than eBay prices usually.

roberty

My R8 sounds really sweet acoustically in a way that wasn't the case with my USA Les Pauls. So obviously I put a super distortion in it and play through a metric shit ton of fuzz and distortion

HandwrittenHero

johnl said:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gibson-Les-Paul-Standard-USA-Stunning/273765672674?epid=1237015715&hash=item3fbdb4a6e2:g:o3IAAOSwfl1cg-lR

That one above sold for £1150 two days ago

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=les paul standard&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2045573.m1684

£1200 for that one

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gibson-Les-Paul-Standard-Ebony-1993/233167991855?hash=item3649e5342f:g:ieEAAOSw~9Rci3mW

£1300 for that one. You can very definitely get a Standard for under £1500 and prices on here are even better than eBay prices usually.

Can only see 2 of those...the 93 is a good line in sand there. The other standard has g force tuners, which does really divide opinions.

Jez6345789

I think what I have come away with from the comments here is play a lot of them and find what you like. 
If you are looking 2nd hand as said if you can edge the money up 500 quid you are in R8 territory which is still a step up in my mind from traditional but you have to pick and choose. 

I went back to Japanese as I never found the Les Paul of my dreams so I have and never would rule out the Japanese option.

Again my mate has a 90's ebony fretboard studio and its a cracker really exceptional at doing the Les paul thing. 

If I had to make a Les Paul single cut decision this week I would pick up a 2nd hand Bernie Marsden my mate got a 2nd hand one before Christmas and I had a 6-week loan of it and it is a great guitar by anybody's standards. I would then have a grand left over for a nice amp and in my mind, you will always go further with a cheap guitar and a decent amp rather than an expensive guitar and a cheap amp.

Fifty9

+ 1 on the Bernie Marsden recommendation.

Styling/brand aside I really cannot fault it vis-vis the 2017 lp traditional I had recently. 800 is one heck of a premium for solid top vs veneer plus nitro vs poly.

zepp76

rico said:

johnl said:

I suspect most responses you'll get here will be variations on "try a load and see what you like" which I'd definitely recommend. That said some basic bits of advice:

1. Avoid pretty much everything from 2015. A number of very unpopular changes were made that year (massively wide fretboards, weird facsimile of Les Paul's signature on the headstock, "Chairman Les" hologram on the rear"). That said if you try one and none of those things bother you they can be had very cheaply.

2. Over the years Gibson have experimented with different methods of weight relief; some of which are shown below:



There's no right or wrong answer there but certainly the lighter and more chambered guitars can sound a bit different to the traditional solid ones. 

3. The Les Paul standard isn't all that standard and for a number of years has been Gibson's testing ground. As such these are where you're more likely to find coil splits or other interesting switching options, modern weight relief, robotuners and so on. The "traditional" is generally more of a traditional spec and the classic is similar to the traditional but usually with more interesting pickup options - i.e. P90s etc.

4. HP vs T. For a while Gibson had two versions of every model in the lineup; the "High Performance" models had a more contoured heel, robotuners and a lot more bling. The traditional models were....more traditional.

5. Almost all models since around 2015ish have had PCBs in place of traditional wiring in the cavity. Worth confirming if this is something likely to bother you (though it's an easy and cheap job to rip it out and replace with a proper loom).

You should easily be able to find a good standard for around the £1000 mark. Mid to late 90s Standards seem to be particularly well-regarded. 

There is no way you'll get a standard for less than £1500 in todays market. Even headstock breaks are around that price.

I bought my '04 standard a few years ago for £1200 it is an exceptional guitar, I'd like to think it has appreciated in value although it's a moot point as I'd never sell it! The only thing I've changed is the pickups as I don't like the Burstbuckers it came with. (It now has OX4's which are miles better than the originals). It has traditional weight relief rather than chambering to help keep the weight down. The op should be able to pick up a similar guitar within his budget.

pintspiller

I'd get a Studio.

Or something with a cumtastic top.

Henrytwang

I quite like my modern Gibson Les Paul guitars, they certainly feel and sound better than my 70s Gibson’s. I think that if you’re looking for a reasonable affordable Les Paul the Traditional is the best bet with its reasonably full neck and no fancy pickup switching. That’s not to say that the recent Standard and Studio instruments are bad guitars, I own all three models and enjoy playing them.

tralfamadan

I played Fenders a lot and I don't get on with the carved top of a Les Paul. I personally would opt for something like this: https://reverb.com/uk/p/gibson-les-paul-special-p-90-electric-guitar

mikeyrob73

Prs sc250 that’s listed on here, brilliant guitars 

crunchman

mikeyrob73 said:

Prs sc250 that’s listed on here, brilliant guitars 

I've owned a PRS Singlecut.  It's not as good as a good Les Paul.  I don't think the PRS #7 pickups help it, but it's more than that.  It might be partly the longer scale length, but I've come to the conclusion that the problem with the Core US PRS guitars is that the maple cap is too thick in the middle where the bridge anchors.  I've had 5 maple topped PRS guitars and ended up selling the lot.  None of them sounded as good as the Les Paul I have now.

Like I said above though, Les Pauls can vary.  You need to try a bunch of the to find one you like.

mikeyrob73

crunchman said:

mikeyrob73 said:

Prs sc250 that’s listed on here, brilliant guitars 

I've owned a PRS Singlecut.  It's not as good as a good Les Paul.  I don't think the PRS #7 pickups help it, but it's more than that.  It might be partly the longer scale length, but I've come to the conclusion that the problem with the Core US PRS guitars is that the maple cap is too thick in the middle where the bridge anchors.  I've had 5 maple topped PRS guitars and ended up selling the lot.  None of them sounded as good as the Les Paul I have now.

Like I said above though, Les Pauls can vary.  You need to try a bunch of the to find one you like.

And I’m the opposite, I have owned several les Paul’s and not one of them can touch the Prs sc I currently have 

Grumpyrocker

I recently bought an SE 245, it's easily as good as the LP Studio I used to own. In fact it's not really that far off my LP Traditional. 

timmypix

Currently have a '17 LP Classic, PRS SC250 and a PRS Bernie. The SC250 is noticeably brighter and snappier than the other two, very different feeling and sounding to a traditional Les Paul.

I'd say if you have the Les Paul itch, only a Les Paul will do, even if it's just to find out if it's for you or not.

SouthpawMark

It blows my mind how some people can glance at a Les Paul and immediately know exactly what model/year it is, and what characteristics it has that are different to other years. They pretty much all look the same to me.