Acoustic panel positioning

Rocker

Lestratcaster said:

Yep, will be getting more furniture, I've barely been using it for 1 week!! But yes a sofa and a few shelves are going in there in weeks to come. I think the more stuff I put in there it'll help reduce the echo.

And not sure what you mean by my combo amp positioning (I play through the Marshall DSL). Do you mean it place it between the table and speaker stand?

Sorry, on my phone the black box behind the speaker stand looks like a combo amp.  To answer your question, yes try it where I suggest.  A pretty decent hi-fi sound can be got in a cube shaped room by having the speakers firing diagonally in the room.  The acoustic reflections go all over the place rather than up and down the room.  I would expect the same thing to happen with a guitar amp but I never tried this for myself.  Besides this test costs nothing except a half hour moving and testing of kit.....

Rocker

Lestratcaster said:

Hmm, so something like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6pCl6128zE

Looks easy enough if I can source the materials, would be better to get a frame already pieced together as well.

Good God man!  That room looks more like a prison cell than a studio.  If that is what it takes to get an echo free room, I am outta here as they say.

Lestratcaster

Rocker said:

Lestratcaster said:

Yep, will be getting more furniture, I've barely been using it for 1 week!! But yes a sofa and a few shelves are going in there in weeks to come. I think the more stuff I put in there it'll help reduce the echo.

And not sure what you mean by my combo amp positioning (I play through the Marshall DSL). Do you mean it place it between the table and speaker stand?

Sorry, on my phone the black box behind the speaker stand looks like a combo amp.  To answer your question, yes try it where I suggest.  A pretty decent hi-fi sound can be got in a cube shaped room by having the speakers firing diagonally in the room.  The acoustic reflections go all over the place rather than up and down the room.  I would expect the same thing to happen with a guitar amp but I never tried this for myself.  Besides this test costs nothing except a half hour moving and testing of kit.....

That's the amp cover for the Marshall haha. But yes I will give it a go. So just to be sure you mean here?



I may rearrange the room again to how most people position their monitors to face the length of the room and just experiment with different panels whenever I get hold of any.

Musicwolf

Rocker said:

Good God man!  That room looks more like a prison cell than a studio.  If that is what it takes to get an echo free room, I am outta here as they say.

No, this is what it takes to achieve an echo-free room;

Stepping inside one was one of the weirdest experiences of my life.  The absence of any reverberation is quite disturbing.

The use of broad band acoustic absorbers, as prescribed in the thread, should help to smooth the uneven frequency response associated with standing waves and improve stereo imaging by reducing first order reflections.

WiresDreamDisasters

The panels in my room cost me around £300 to build, iirc.

I have 8 of them around my room, and it sounds really good in there for mixing

Lestratcaster

WiresDreamDisasters said:

The panels in my room cost me around £300 to build, iirc.

I have 8 of them around my room, and it sounds really good in there for mixing

I'm not a producer so mixing isn't overly important, the minimal is to stop a bit of room echo that's all.

Lestratcaster

Had a little reshuffle of the room today, now both monitors and desk are placed at the far end of the room, facing the door (which you can hear faint audio outside, if you stand by the door). This is why I didn't want it there at first glance cos the audio is blasting towards the house.

I'm presuming I'll need 2 panels on either side of the window then on the side I'm standing on?

Also is it advisable to mix DIY panels and ones from GIK? Say if I got 3 from them and built 3 of my own?

Musicwolf

The lay out looks much better.  Is the volume the other side of the door really louder? (have you measured it?).  I would be suspicious of confirmation bias.  Sound leakage - low frequencies really need mass to take them (fire door as a minimum but for real attenuation you are looking at a room within a room).  Low end will be independent of monitor position.  Hi end - you can probably reduce this with a decent door seal.

Further improvement to the layout.  Distance between the monitors looks ok but it is best to angle them inward.  You are aiming for an equilateral triangle with the monitors at two of the corners and he listener at the third.  The other thing to try would be to pull the monitors away from the back wall.  How far depends upon the monitor design but too close and you will get a bass boost (in a bad way).

Panels.  OK to mix but I would suggest to build a few first - you may be pleasantly surprised how easy it is.  In addition to the mirror points I'd be looking to start by straddling the front corners and where the front wall meets the ceiling.

Lestratcaster

The house is 50ft away from the garage and when you reach 25ft I can't hear anything, you have to go right up outside the door. Plus we have planes flying over every 10 minutes anyway haha.

Both monitor stands are approx 3 inches away from the wall - don't know if you can see it well but I have pulled them forward and turned them inwards slightly.


 Ok so with those panels you've drawn in they'll need to tuck in triangularly into the corners like bass traps would?

I know you guys have advised against the foam tiles but they are being delivered tomorrow and as there's not much else in the room I'll still give it a go til I get some panels.

Musicwolf

The terms 'bass trap' and 'acoustic pane' / 'broad band absorber' are pretty much interchangeable in this scenario.  The lowest frequency that these things will be effective at is governed by how far away from the wall they are.  If you have a 100mm thick panel it is fairly easy to space it a further 100mm from the wall (a bit of cardboard tube between wall and panel makes a good spacer).  Straddling the corner achieves two things;

The intersection of surfaces (wall / wall, ceiling / wall, wall / floor) are the places where problem frequencies 'build up'.  Corners are even better laces for traps.

When you straddle the corner you increase the spacing from the wall therefore lowering the frequency to which they are effective.

Lestratcaster

So if I were to build a panel like those shown above I angle it like you suggest? I would want to keep it 100mm from the wall using some wood mounts

Musicwolf

If it's across a corner - no need to space.  If it's on a flat wall hang it like a picture with a wire across the back then stick a couple of cardboard tubes, 100mm long, between absorber and wall top and bottom.  No need to fix, the weight of the panel will trap them in place.

Lestratcaster

Unexpectedly those foam tiles turned up about an ago! I've put some up behind the monitors on the wall, the sticky adhesive pads I'm using don't hold foam up very well a couple of them have fallen down already, which is well shit. 

I'm probably going to have say I was wrong to consider these, and I hope to be getting hold of the proper panels to mount on the wall within the next few months.

Musicwolf

It's a learning process.  I've just been doing it for a bit longer, that's all.  If it makes you feel any better I've still got one of my foam tiles which serves as padding inside one of my mixer cases.

Lestratcaster

I might ask my friend who installed the liquid damp proof membrane and did the floor to make some wooden panels, if I get hold of the RS3 and shove it inside, all I'd need to do is wrap it in breathable fabric and get him to do the wall mounts.

I'll keep hold of the foam tiles anyway. Dunno what I'd use them for though.

WiresDreamDisasters

Lestratcaster said:

WiresDreamDisasters said:

The panels in my room cost me around £300 to build, iirc.

I have 8 of them around my room, and it sounds really good in there for mixing

I'm not a producer so mixing isn't overly important, the minimal is to stop a bit of room echo that's all.

Regardless, this is the way to do it.

Lestratcaster

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Lestratcaster said:

WiresDreamDisasters said:

The panels in my room cost me around £300 to build, iirc.

I have 8 of them around my room, and it sounds really good in there for mixing

I'm not a producer so mixing isn't overly important, the minimal is to stop a bit of room echo that's all.

Regardless, this is the way to do it.

Yep, and after my silly actions earlier I am going to have to!!!

Lestratcaster

I went back in the garage like 1 hour after putting those foam tiles up and half of them had fallen off. Disgruntled I took them all off and started peeling off the adhesive pads. Me being the stupid person I am it started ripping off the paintwork too and now there are nasty patches all over the window area!



This is where I'd want the panels to be anyway right? Just behind the monitors?

If I do want to fix it is it a case of some easy filler to smooth over then a few coats of paint?

Lestratcaster

Right, so got some multi-purpose polyfilla and smoothed over those patches. Yesterday I put one coat of Dulux over and its looking a bit better:

Lestratcaster

Also, would speaker cloth be ok to cover the wooden panels with? Or should it be acoustic fabric?

https://www.nexxia.co.uk/product/acoustic-speaker-cloth-dark-grey/CT64-02