What order when laying down tracks?

zepp76

As I'm just starting out with recording I'm not sure of which way/order to layer each track, could you kind folks give any advice on such things please? There'll be drums (obviously they are laid down first) then I'm guessing bass but which way round should I add acoustic rhythm, keys and lead guitar (at a guess I assume lead guitar comes last?) or does it not matter? This may be a stupid question but I am only just learning!

wave100

I think you are on the right track here - there's not really a single right way but it makes sense to record instruments which define the groove first, so drums first, then bass and rhythm guitars, then everything else.

octatonic

zepp76 said:

As I'm just starting out with recording I'm not sure of which way/order to layer each track, could you kind folks give any advice on such things please? There'll be drums (obviously they are laid down first) then I'm guessing bass but which way round should I add acoustic rhythm, keys and lead guitar (at a guess I assume lead guitar comes last?) or does it not matter? This may be a stupid question but I am only just learning!

It really depends on the person- the goal is to get the right performance.
The most important thing in the tune is usually the vocal, so whatever you need to do to get the vocalist comfortable singing as well as they can.

Some vocalists need to have a completed track to sing over, some don't.

When you say 'I guess the drums are laid down first'- what will the drummer be playing along too?
Or are you sequencing the drums?
Either way you might find it better to start with a riff, or a melody first, don't let drums dictate the content or structure of the song.

I tend to work with guitar against a click, then add barebones bass and sequenced drums to get enough for someone to sing over.
Then go back and replace the drums and bass (in one performance ideally, as in the bassist and drummer playing at the same time) and then add everything else on top and editing the vocals down, then doing edits, then mixing.

I've done other ways too- there is no right and wrong in terms of method, provided the outcome is as good as it can be.

Cirrus

It kind of depends on your taste and process.

If all the parts are written, you can lay them down in whatever order gives you the best groove/ tightness/ feel.

If there's still some leeway in certain parts but others are solid and finished, it makes sense to get the stuff you're sure about recorded, then you have more context to finish the incomplete parts.

Likewise, if you're sure about some tones but not sure about others, same logic applies.

Generally, all else being equal I find that when I'm playing everything, I get the tightest timing by playing an acoustic guitar to a click, then playing the drums to the acoustic guide track, then adding the guitars, then bass, then vocals, then backing vocals. This helps not just with my timing but also choosing tones, since I'm more confident about judging guitar tones and then have context to pick a bass sound that works.

zepp76

@octatonic  @Cirrus Thank you for the great advice, playing the acoustic to a click track/metronome first sounds like a great idea, I could ideally lay down vocals with just the acoustic track so that would work really well for me. I was under the misconception that drums had to go first so that would open things up nicely (drums will come from a drum machine, Alesis SR18).

spark240

I would also generally put a couple of acoustic guitar tracks down to a basic drum pattern or click track, then maybe a Bass idea, I find that then triggers some other ideas.

BahHumbug

If you’re using a drum machine, then it’s a good idea to lay down a very basic drum track first.  I find that most people find it easier to play along to drums than a click.  If you do a standard drum pattern of bass, snare, bass, snare (with hihat), and lay down more than you will need to cover the length of your song, then you’ve got the beat laid out nicely to record your acoustic guitar, bass etc.  If you want to generate a more complex drum track later you can record that and then just shuffle it on the timeline to match your other tracks.
If you’re really good at playing along to a click track, though, you can ignore the above

Musicwolf

If you are playing all (or several) of the instruments yourself then, during the writing and arranging stage, you miss that interaction between musicians where you feed ideas off each other.  I find that it can helpful to lay down rough tracks first.  I then edit the arrangement (i.e. cut and paste, drop ins, deleting sections etc).  I might also start with one drum track, lay down some bass / guitars then go back to the drums and try a completely different groove.

Once I'm happy with the drums I usually start rerecording the 'real' instruments starting with bass (if a rough track is really working I'll keep it).  This also helps to find sounds that fit together.  If you just start from the bottom trying to record the parts proper you inevitably end up with the first instruments filling up the frequency spectrum leaving no space for the later parts.

Having a guide vocal down early can also help to ensure that the vocal has space in the mix, however, I often mute the vocal when I come to record another rhythm instrument (bass or rhythm guitar) as I find that my playing is tighter when not listening to the vocal.

Nerine

Usually drums first, since most people are more capable of playing to a drum beat than a metronome. 
I’ll also edit drums before recording anything else. 
Very rare do you find a band that is tight enough to track everything live. Especially in the heavier styles. 
It also depends greatly on your personal production and mix aesthetic. Myself, I lean more to the polished side of things, whilst keeping a bit of looseness for character. I find it gives me greater flexibility. I can always add “vibe” and “character” to parts with creative editing, compression and ambience. 
I prefer things to be tight as I can get more punch that way. 

axisus

I always start with keyboards, then drums, bass, backing guitar, lead guitar.

zepp76

axisus said:

I always start with keyboards, then drums, bass, backing guitar, lead guitar.

What do you use to keep time when laying down keys first? 

axisus

zepp76 said:

axisus said:

I always start with keyboards, then drums, bass, backing guitar, lead guitar.

What do you use to keep time when laying down keys first? 

Well, I'm just doing mickey mouse backing tracks for my own entertainment, but many of the things that I do don't have a constant tempo. Sometimes I play along to a song that I am going to discard later, so I use that for timing. I'm not saying it's a good way to work! 

PolarityMan

Ok for the band we do

Guitars, bass and vocals to a click as a scratch track, these are tightish but not doubled / quad tracked and we dont obsess over detail. Its so our drummer knows where in the song he is without any distracting timing issues

Then drums
The edit the drums
Then bass
The rhythm guitars
The leads / FX guitars
Then main vocals
Then harmonies

For stuff I'm demo'ing I get best results doing
Guitar to click - quad tracked for distorted parts, generally single tracked for cleans and leads
Bass
Programmed drums

I'll typically go through that order section by section (so each section has a complete set of instruments before i move to the next) then pass off the finished track to our singer for vocals. I'll also sometimes iterate over the guitar and bass parts if the drum part I write has something i want to highlight (although this rarely happens as i tend to write the drum part in my head as im writing the riffs).