UKIP etc

Fazer

Why do people object to non-halal meat?

RobDavies

Dean Perks, UKIP candidate for Halesowen and Rowley Regis in the Black Country, said this:

"Sharia law, in my opinion, works as a prevention. And prevention is better than cure. If you think you're going to get your hands chopped off for pinching something, you won't pinch it."

Karlos

holnrew said:

Why do people object to halal meat?

On political grounds it's because they claim it causes unnecessary pain to the animal when it has it's throat slashed.

Those against it claim that animal rights are more important that religious doctrine. Denmark banned Halal meat a few months back. 

Cameron has said he will protect the right to ritual slaughter whilst he is PM.

When an animal is slaughtered, "Allah" is pronounced as an offering of the animal to him. Some Christians claim it's an offering to a false God - an idol. 

It's actually everywhere Tesco, Sainsbury Co-Op etc not just in Halal butchers. 

luscombe

luscombe said:

far better to have the Loony Left and Sharia Law.

You jest! I'll leave the country before I accept Sharia Law.

I was jesting! but, it seems to be bad form to be anything but left wing on here, so I couldn'y say what I really thought.

Evilmags

The repeal of the EU convention of human rights is based upon the fact that the UK finds it impossible to deport foreign murders, rapists ect, many of whom have reoffended. The fact that the judiciary in France and many other EU countries manage to ignore it when it suits them seems to have escaped the UK´s somewhat left wing legal establishment. The UK has a parliament and a somewhat longer track record of democratic accountability and basic human rights than nearly any EU country. So should not need an international body to lecture it. In principle if people submit to Sharia (or any other private court of arbitration) I have no issue with it as long as it is voluntary. In the case of women in a strict muslim community I would have severe reservations regarding the voluntary nature of the agreement.

One of the main reasons UKIP are having so much success is because mainstream politicians are terrified of addressing the main issue of Eastern Europe entering the EU, namely Romany arriving from Bulgaria and Romania. In their desperation to appear politically correct they talk about Bulgarian and Romanians, basically implying that all of the Romanians and Bulgarians behave exactly like the clans of Gypsies who operate begging and mugging rings round Soho. With the expectation of the few remaining John Prescott like figures in Westminster they are all sophisticated enough to know they are doing it and can´t figure a way out of it without being labled as  racist.  

The weakest of all arguments, that immigrants take our jobs, is pathetic, economically illiterate populism. There are plenty of decent reasons to leave the EU without resorting to that old chestnut. It is the same argument as that given by the luddites over automated looms. People have a legitimate compliant in saying that society is changing to fast for them, and they are uncomfortable with it but that is about as far as it goes. 79% of all new jobs created since 2006 have gone to non UK nationals. That statistic alone says that the jobs are out there and are being filled. The real question is why are UK nationals unwilling to take those jobs despite having the advantage of fluent English?

Phil_aka_Pip

Evilmags said:

79% of all new jobs created since 2006 have gone to non UK nationals. That statistic alone says that the jobs are out there and are being filled. The real question is why are UK nationals unwilling to take those jobs despite having the advantage of fluent English?

Probably because the pay:hassle ratio is way too low, whereas foreigners are much more tolerant of a low pay:hassle ratio.

EDIT possibly also because the foreigners are here while they need to be, so they can send money home to rellies who are even worse off, whereas yer average britisher is expecting to pay off a mortgage with his wages. I can't think of many software engineers who would do my job for my pay, being a few k less than the national average - they think the going rate is double the national average but if I demanded that I wouldn't be working at all. The upside for me is I'm not paying off a mortgage so while I'd like to have that kind of money I don't actually need it.

Evilmags

Which asks the question "why should working people pay a considerable proportion of their income, with obvious negative connotations for their welfare, their ability to save for old age, and to the general detriment of the economy, to people who refuse to work? 

Gassage

Re Halal meat, due to business, I often get the chance to fly in the front bit of the plane. So I stipulated I wanted non-halal meat on Qatar.

Caused a few issues, as they cannot carry it next to halal meat. They wanted me to have veg, but he who flys up front should get what he wants.

85% of UK meat is halal as it's easier to do all meat than separate it. Hopefully it'll be banned as it's a pretty barbaric thing to do.

Phil_aka_Pip

Evilmags said:

Which asks the question "why should working people pay a considerable proportion of their income, with obvious negative connotations for their welfare, their ability to save for old age, and to the general detriment of the economy, to people who refuse to work? 

That's a very simplistic way of looking at it. Other threads have dealt with the question of why someone would "refuse to work", and its often down to inability to do the job or unsuitability for it. EG I've tried being an office-dogsbody-wallah as I was trying to sell "transferable skills" such as computer-literacy and the ability to organise and process data. Turned out I was sacked from my last such job, and I realised I was just not fitted for it. I won't be applying for other such jobs if (God forbid) I lose my current "proper" job. I'd also refuse a job as a steeplejack: I can fall off a chair just trying to change a light bulb!

chrispy108

http://www.tickld.com/cdn_image_thing/669919.jpg

As for refusing to work, I went into this in another thread, due to our convoluted benefits system, it often doesn't pay.

A friend of my mothers was working 20 hours a week as a payroll clark, as she's a single mother she couldn't sensibly work more hours due to childcare costs. She worked out she was 6p a week better off than if she did no work.

Evilmags

It is not if you believe people have a right to the fruits of their own labour. Society has more than enough voluntary goodwill to look after its weakest members without the need for forcing people whether they want to or not. If somebody is offered a job and refuses it, fine, that is there choice. But I fail to see why they should then have a right to other people´s hard earned cash.

It is a pattern of behaviour that has grown exponentially since benefits were introduced because of the moral hazard of giving people free money. That is why nobody copied the UK benefits system and the rest of the EU insists on people working prior to being able to claim and on term limits for claimants. It is this system that is clearly open to abuse by EU nationals and that the EU insist must be open to everyone. That is a pretty quick way to bankrupt the country.

The sense of entitlement and belief that society owes anybody a free ride is ethically indefensible.

Deijavoo

Yeah, employers should be able to sack women for becoming pregnant, mandatory abortions for those with children that will have Down Syndrome.....the list goes on. 

All rational policies obviously. 

I do really hope and pray for someone to one day fuck Nigel Farage very violently right up his nose. 

GuitarMonkey

georgenadaintl said:

I don't think they are racists but they do attract a lot of ex-BNP and ex-NF people. .  

Not racist, just very popular with racists. 

Give me strength.

Sambostar

Evilmags, the work agencies recruit directly from Europe.  Brits do not even get a look in, so you can hardly blame them.  This can cover the full spectrum from horticulture and agriculture to warehousing and logistics chains to hotelier and hospitality work.  The downside for the poor unskilled Europeans who come over with a promise of a job is that they are dismissed just as easily and have spent a lot of cash setting themselves up for the move, when the agency or employer changes wind.

Think about it like this. In the 90's it was hard to get a contractual job, as everything was agency work, albeit with the promise of a committed contract after staying with the company after so many years.....although that never seemed to come to anything.

These days it is hard to get a job with an agency, because they all recruit from abroad.

Go down to your local agency and ask what full time work they have available, or read the classified section in the paper, it is pretty thin on the ground.

But I agree no one should expect a free ride, nor be paid for by others for it.

It's similar to the old chestnut about immigrant families taking all the houses.  The fact is that immigrant families are more likely to have no family connections or friends so will be prepared to stay in often violent homeless hostels and shelters for so many months, squeezed together into a tiny room.  After doing so, they automatically jump the social housing queue and get a place.  Ignoring your stereotypical workshy family who will never work, your average working Brit from a divorce or having their house repossessed with a family will stay with friends or relatives or parents!!!!, anything to put their kids through going to a hostel.  So the immigrant family, who have contributed nothing to society in the UK thus far, gets the house.

But it's all good, because soon they learn how to play the system and have eleven kids to keep themselves in the new lifestyle that they have become accustomed to.

It's the same with unemployment statistics, your average Brit will just disappear off the radar, than be on the JSA register.

Sambostar

I actually do not understand the need for so many unskilled immigrants when our youth unemployment is so high.  It is all to easy to blame the expectant culture and stereotypes. Go to Australia, you'll see the fields full of British fruit pickers roasting in the Mango and melon fields on a one year work visa working for peanuts to get the money to travel.  If it was a level playing field over here they would get work here too.  The other factor is  affordability.  If they are working 60 hours a week to subsist where is the motivation?  Where as if you can come here and work for five years and buy a house back home, or better yet, stay here and rent a place whilst sending benefits and money back home to get a place, or even come from somewhere where you don't even have running water to coming here to have a comfortable life not working flor the rest of your days with a family of eleven, it is one hell of a motivational factor.

Evilmags

You have to ask why employers prefer foreign workers. they still have to apply UK and EU labour laws so there is hardly a cost advantage in it. I´m running a building site at the moment (Renovating a house I got very cheaply because of its condition on the outskirts of Madrid).  3 of the guys I have working there are from the UK, mainly because I trust them and I don´t like the way Spanish tradesmen work (Sticking ceilings up with hessian soaked in plaster of Paris is a bit 1800s) and then for specialist work I get a Spanish specialist in. So as an employer I´m looking at overseas workers and for good reasons and I suspect it is the same in any country.

Besides on a more positive front, the bigger the ethnic mix the greater the variety of pretty girls. London has a massive ethnic mix and the eye candy sure the hell beats Hull or Newcastle... 

GuitarMonkey

Gassage said:

85% of UK meat is halal as it's easier to do all meat than separate it. Hopefully it'll be banned as it's a pretty barbaric thing to do.

85%, really? Even all the bacon and pork? Where did you get that figure, UKIP election leaflet?

I agree it's barbaric, but then I think all meat-eating is.

holnrew

Evilmags said:

Besides on a more positive front, the bigger the ethnic mix the greater the variety of pretty girls. London has a massive ethnic mix and the eye candy sure the hell beats Hull or Newcastle... 

WOAH. 

UnclePsychosis

UKIP at least serve the purpose of helping you filter out idiots.

So far I've encountered a 100% correlation between thinking UKIP are worth voting for and idiocy. You know where you stand with UKIP supporters, straight away.

Phil_aka_Pip

UnclePsychosis said:

UKIP at least serve the purpose of helping you filter out idiots.

So far I've encountered a 100% correlation between thinking UKIP are worth voting for and idiocy. You know where you stand with UKIP supporters, straight away.