I can’t play guitar amplifiers without microphones any more!

Jonathanthomas83

So an interesting thing occurred to me the other day. I went to try out the new 20w JCM 800 in Cardiff and it struck me how unusual it is for me to play a real amp in a normal way nowadays, and almost how unlistenable the whole experience was for me. I've just become too accustomed to playing the digital way, with a mic'ed cab using an Impulse Response or Kemper profile.

I started writing this post and realised it was going to drag on, so put my thoughts down in a blog post - I don't earn money from this, it's purely for personal musings, so sorry if this competes with any rules for taking people off site.

https://medium.com/fretboard/i-cant-play-guitar-amplifiers-without-microphones-any-more-9da821869c49

I'd like to hear people's thoughts on this. Could it be the way we all experience things in future? Is it a good or bad thing? Anyone else feel the same or am I the only weirdo who can't hack amps in their raw form?!

TTBZ

I know what you mean. I've been playing with headphones and modeller more than a real amp recently and I think I prefer the "studio" tone over "live warts and all" a lot of the time - at least for playing and jamming around unaccompanied. I find the real amp sounds great for the first few minutes then I start hearing all the fizz and harshness (on distorted tones) that can be reduced with mics.

The way I see it all my favourite tones are on albums which have been mic'd up in a good sounding room, so it makes sense that I'd prefer the modelled stuff. I've not used modelling in a band situation yet though. I imagine it's the aforementioned fizz and harshness that gives the real amp presence and power in a mix.

PS - crank that JCM800 up through a Greenback 2x12 or 4x12 to hear it at its best  the situation you tried it in sounds like everything was working against it sounding good. the combo is ok if you want a small package though, imo it still sounds like an 800. Try a Studio Jubilee as well!

p90fool

We mostly consume other people's guitar music via a microphone, so it is actually the norm if you think about it. 

It's only us musicians who are generally familiar with the immediacy of a loud, in-your-face guitar amplifier. 

I tend to play either unplugged or via a Pignose at home, so I mostly only hear my own amp via mics and monitoring, but when I do get a chance to turn it up it still fills me with joy. 

lukedlb

It’s a bleary eyes morning yet I had trouble following your blog regarding actual physical amp in room with a mic’d cab, and the virtual rendering, unsure as to which you were referring. 
Two important points though: always go to a guitar shop with YOUR guitar. Prepare your testing repertoire beforehand: I use a clean song that perfectly represents all that I want from an amp, and choose a song suitable for the style amp. 

Jonathanthomas83

TTBZ said:

I know what you mean. I've been playing with headphones and modeller more than a real amp recently and I think I prefer the "studio" tone over "live warts and all" a lot of the time - at least for playing and jamming around unaccompanied. I find the real amp sounds great for the first few minutes then I start hearing all the fizz and harshness (on distorted tones) that can be reduced with mics.

The way I see it all my favourite tones are on albums which have been mic'd up in a good sounding room, so it makes sense that I'd prefer the modelled stuff. I've not used modelling in a band situation yet though. I imagine it's the aforementioned fizz and harshness that gives the real amp presence and power in a mix.

PS - crank that JCM800 up through a Greenback 2x12 or 4x12 to hear it at its best  the situation you tried it in sounds like everything was working against it sounding good. the combo is ok if you want a small package though, imo it still sounds like an 800. Try a Studio Jubilee as well!

That's exactly how I will try it next time :-)

@lukedlb good point mate, I should probably clear that up on the article. Thanks for reading it and for the feedback. 

WiresDreamDisasters

Every time I plug into a 4x12 with one of my Diezel heads, I feel like I'm "home". I love all the technology we have at our finger tips, but I have a personal gold standard that is just really hard to ignore. And that's based on my experiences over the last 15 years or so.

fretmeister

I know what you mean.
Most of my favourite guitar sounds are on studio albums - mic'd, processed etc

So often I prefer that approach with my Helix.

octatonic

I prefer to feel the floor rumble.

lukedlb

I started writing this post and realised it was going to drag on, so put my thoughts down in a blog post - I don't earn money from this, it's purely for personal musings, so sorry if this competes with any rules for taking people off   

There’s nothing wrong with a long post; actually, it should require tighter thought on the poster’s part so as not to lose the reader. 
The only thing I would have against offsite rambling is a hesitation to return to that site for an update. Would any further comments or updates belong to the blog or be mirrored on the forum? Best to post on forum a to the point version of your blog. 

Freebird

I view the playing of guitars through an amplifier as being a PITA micing, EQ and compression job in the studio, or on the soundboard. My co-inhabitants and neighbours view it as something a whole lot worse. Of course, it has its benefits if you want to dress up like Slash or Jimmy Page, and pretend to be them 

sweepy

It’s the eternal, Creating or Recreating guitar tone. For me there is nothing quite like the immediacy and dynamics of a “good” valve amp and I’m a Kemper fanboy .

gringopig

.

thecolourbox

I struggle to hear stuff the louder it gets, not sure if that means I have hearing problems or not as I can hear quiet things very loudly. But that does mean I prefer a modeller sound for my own playing and usually strive to sound more recorded than amp in the room as a matter of course

p90fool

Freebird said:

I view the playing of guitars through an amplifier as being a PITA micing, EQ and compression job in the studio, or on the soundboard. My co-inhabitants and neighbours view it as something a whole lot worse. Of course, it has its benefits if you want to dress up like Slash or Jimmy Page, and pretend to be them 

I don't really see how playing both halves of your instrument is just for poseurs. 

Guitar + amp IS the instrument, and although you can fake various bits of it the very existence of this thread proves it's just not the same thing at all. 

Pablocrackers

Nah man not for me IR’s & kemper etc are good but cant be a real cab and blasting tube amp behind ya its that element of danger and uncontrollable on the edge sound when the amps so loud that every nuance in your playing affects the amp and both guitar and amp working in harmony to produce this snarling beast! Thats rock n roll for me no matter how good kempers etc are and they are brilliant i dont feel you can replicate that and i think you loose that element of danger after all rock is all about attitude whether you play shit or not. You dont get that on a quiet stage. My two pence lol

Jonathanthomas83

p90fool said:

Freebird said:

I view the playing of guitars through an amplifier as being a PITA micing, EQ and compression job in the studio, or on the soundboard. My co-inhabitants and neighbours view it as something a whole lot worse. Of course, it has its benefits if you want to dress up like Slash or Jimmy Page, and pretend to be them  

I don't really see how playing both halves of your instrument is just for poseurs. 

Guitar + amp IS the instrument, and although you can fake various bits of it the very existence of this thread proves it's just not the same thing at all. 

I must agree. 

Let me be clear though, I love playing through amplifiers. I prefer it to my Kemper, I think. And that's why I'm going back to amps. Perhaps my initial blog post didn't convey that. It's just that I like what the correct cab and mic combinations do to the sound. As is alluded to above, in @p90fool's earlier post...it stands to reason, because that is how we've always consumed music on records. I mention this in my post too.

Since potching around with my Torpedo CAB (yes, digital, I admit), I've learned so much about what microphones do to the resulting sound, killer combo for my tastes is a Neumann and and SM57. 

This is probably obvious for most of you, but for me, it's a bit of a revelation recently. None more so than since I played the amp in the shop.

PolarityMan

Theres something very connected about playing direct I  and hearing the sound through the speaker. To keep even putting just a mic or a really good modeller loses that connectedness to some degree even if the sound / tone is just as good.

I don't know if it's some super subtle compression or what but the immediacy of the response just feels better playing through a real amp.

Jonathanthomas83

Yes absolutely, I agree, re:response, connectedness and feel. The point I'm trying to make above is about the sound/tone though.

Freebird

p90fool said:

Freebird said:

I view the playing of guitars through an amplifier as being a PITA micing, EQ and compression job in the studio, or on the soundboard. My co-inhabitants and neighbours view it as something a whole lot worse. Of course, it has its benefits if you want to dress up like Slash or Jimmy Page, and pretend to be them 

I don't really see how playing both halves of your instrument is just for poseurs. 

Guitar + amp IS the instrument, and although you can fake various bits of it the very existence of this thread proves it's just not the same thing at all. 

We clearly need a tongue-in-cheek emoticon, as the other options don't seem to be working 

My main focus is on recording, so the Kemper saves me loads of time. It's also more responsive compared to other modellers such as Amplitube, etc., so I think I have the right balance.

ESBlonde

If you predominantly play along to pre-recorded (thus produced) material, then having a smooth processed guitar sound will seem more the thing, even a mic into a headphone amp will create some compression. In a live situation having a produced/compressed/alterred sound can sound good too for some material. If it's punk or R&R, then use the amp.

The solo guitar in a bedroom will sound thin when using a good live sound, but get lost on a stage (slight generalisation).

Horses for courses etc. use what suits you in your situation.

Mark1960

That's why people still go to gigs. Partly to see the band but also to "feel" the band.