How does Andy Timmons get his sound ???

Lixarto

richardhomer said:

Loobs is sort of the 'new' Bertie, isn't he? A true standard bearer for contumaciousness....

Well, we've needed one for a while.

ChrisMusic

@Dave_Mc said:    It's worth pointing out that Mesa does lots of different amps and they don't all sound the same.

I keep running across enough references to Mesa on here to be starting to get a picture of them and the Boogies, but being a bit of a noobie to them means I don't easily identify characteristics.  I probably need to spend some time with their catalogue and some real amps to nail that one.

I do note from the interview suggested by Bellycaster, that the album was predominantly recorded using Marshalls, but live he is using Mesa.

Rig wise I am running 2 DT25s, with configurable Bogner designed power amps, run either in stereo or to layer sounds.

There is (rather too) slow progress on my project of introducing another tier of preamp variation to the effects returns of them, but I am working on that and will report back when I have enough findings to be worthwhile to the community here.

All this is subject to change though, so I want any key tones to be transferable or at least reconstructable on another rig.

And yes, I do hear Axe FX beckoning further down the line, (maybe)...

@Bellycaster said:    There's titbits in this interview worth reading.    http://www.guitar9.com/interview111.html

Thanks for posting this interview Bellycaster, I enjoyed reading that.

I particularly liked this bit about writing / playing    (obviously taken a bit out of context here)

Guglielmo Malusardi: "What approach did you use for the solos? Did you write them ahead of time, or did you improvise them?"

Andy Timmons: "All the tracks began as live performances with the trio, but when I listened back to the original takes, I was only 50% happy with what I had improvised. I heard myself repeating a lot of things I had already recorded. It didn't sound fresh to me. As I didn't want to punch in to fix the takes, I decided to learn the improvised parts I liked and then compose around those ideas until I felt like I had a really great cohesive statement. Because of this approach I can honestly say that I'm very happy with the result."

Dave_Mc

ChrisMusic said:

@Dave_Mc said:    It's worth pointing out that Mesa does lots of different amps and they don't all sound the same.

I keep running across enough references to Mesa on here to be starting to get a picture of them and the Boogies, but being a bit of a noobie to them means I don't easily identify characteristics.  I probably need to spend some time with their catalogue and some real amps to nail that one.

I do note from the interview suggested by Bellycaster, that the album was predominantly recorded using Marshalls, but live he is using Mesa.

Rig wise I am running 2 DT25s, with configurable Bogner designed power amps, run either in stereo or to layer sounds.

There is (rather too) slow progress on my project of introducing another tier of preamp variation to the effects returns of them, but I am working on that and will report back when I have enough findings to be worthwhile to the community here.

All this is subject to change though, so I want any key tones to be transferable or at least reconstructable on another rig.

And yes, I do hear Axe FX beckoning further down the line, (maybe)...

Yeah, Mesa has a bunch of models, covering most types of guitar tones. I haven't tried anywhere near all of them, but I've tried enough to know how different they can be )

I think timmons used Laneys (hot rod marshally, at least ish) back in the day, and while you can tell his tone was a fair bit brighter then, it still kind of works. That's kind of what I meant when I said anything in the right ballpark should be able to get you there, that you don't necessarily need to fork out for the Mesa (unless you absolutely want to nail it, and even then, if that interview you mentioned is right, he was using Marshalls anyway ) ).

I haven't tried your Line 6 but I'm guessing it should be able to get into the ballpark.

monquixote

Though Timmons uses Mesa amps I don't think he has a stereotypically Mesa sound which usually means a Boogie/Mark sound or a Recto sound. 

He uses a Lone Star which is a Texas Blues SRV type of an amp and a Stiletto which is Mesas Mashally amp so I don't think it's really something where you need to go for the "Mesa" option on your modeller as that is almost always a Dual Rec emulation.

grungebob

I've had a DT25 and a mesa F50 the DT gets extremely close and is a fantastic amp.

ChrisMusic

Hey there @grungebob, I would have had the amp from you, but it sold before I had things sorted.  Yes you are right, it gets in the ballpark for a lot of great tones, and thats before the latest update (still to do that).  Great little amps IMO.  Thanks for your first hand comparison against the F50, thats good to know.  BTW I have similar goals to you with guitars, I don't think just one will be a practical answer, but I would love it if that were possible, maybe two or three fine tuned to suite will be a reasonable solution, or are we "grail hunting" ?

Good extra info there on the Lone Star and Stiletto @monquixote, much appreciated.

Looks like a lot of tonal learning to do on the amp front @Dave_Mc, but you are right the DT25 should get me close.

I can't help wondering though, there is still something subtly different about Andy Timmons' tone, it isn't just normal Marshall IMO.  And I do need to learn about the Mesa range.  There is an element of that choked up fuzz sound in there somewhere.  The closest in the videos is when he uses the tube driver, but it still feels different.

I have a bit of a pathological hatred of fuzzes from my past life, but maybe it is time to overcome that and start a little open minded experimentation.   

Not quite sure where I am going with this one...

Dave_Mc

I'd imagine in that live video he's using the lone star, but I could be wrong. It doesn't really sound like a marshall to me, either.

Though, if his bridge pickup is pretty dark, that might take a bit of the Marshall edge off. I haven't tried the AT pickup, but I think he used to use a tone zone (?), and the tone zone is pretty dark and makes my laney sound a lot less marshally, and more like the tone in the video (to my ears). If the AT is like a lower output tone zone...

http://www.dimarzio.com/pickups/humbuckers/dimarzio-1

http://www.dimarzio.com/pickups/humbuckers/high-power/tone-zone

It's slightly rolled back on the bass and mids compared to the tone zone, but is still well within the same ballpark (loads of bass and mids, not much treble). Obviously you judge anything guitar-based solely on its specs at your peril, but his tone does remind me as being not a million miles off a tonezone. Certainly out of the pickups I have, the tone zone is closest.

monquixote

Dave_Mc said:

I'd imagine in that live video he's using the lone star, but I could be wrong. It doesn't really sound like a marshall to me, either.

I think he always uses both. 

ChrisMusic

Dave_Mc said:  I'd imagine in that live video he's using the lone star, but I could be wrong. It doesn't really sound like a marshall to me, either. 

monquixote said:  I think he always uses both. 

Looks like both in the video on the odd occasion when the camera pans that way.

Interesting ideas on the pickups Dave_Mc, I'll check out those links, cheers.  I might even have a Tone Zone around somewhere.

grungebob

@chrismusic sadly grail hunting has nailed it on the head there!

Dave_Mc

monquixote said:

Dave_Mc said:

I'd imagine in that live video he's using the lone star, but I could be wrong. It doesn't really sound like a marshall to me, either.

I think he always uses both. 

That's possible )

ChrisMusic said:

Interesting ideas on the pickups Dave_Mc, I'll check out those links, cheers.  I might even have a Tone Zone around somewhere.

Yeah if you have one try that and see what you think. If it doesn't get you anywhere close, no harm done. If it helps, you maybe will save a bit of money.

kelvinburn

Why not try a Boogie pedal into your amp? V-Twin or bottle rocket? Ive not tried the new none tube pedals but either of them would be a worthy addition to most rigs.

ChrisMusic

Good call on the pedals kelvinburn, I was wondering what is out there that would do a convincing job.

The AMT pedals are pretty good too, but the R2 (in demos) doesn't seem to capture what I am looking for, unless @fretmeister knows better?

I'll check out the  V-Twin & bottle rocket, cheers

I would prefer to find a pedal solution that may well work with whatever amp(s) and guitars I have at the time (which will inevitably change).  I realise that the subtleties (!) of this sound may end up being amp specific.

The task of analysing and reconstructing this tone is a good lesson on the learning curve for me.  So thanks to everyone for your help so far.

fretmeister

I love my AMT pedals but I'm not familiar with Timmons to know if one of them would nail it.

But the R-2 and the P-2 are very close indeed to the real amps

ChrisMusic

Thanks for the info @fretmeister, it is good to know they deliver the tones.  I feel the need for a small collection of AMTs on the way.  (BTW, there is an ATB gig video in the OP, which is what sparked the initial question.)

Which amp is the R2 closest to in your opinion ?

fretmeister

The R-2 is a Dual Rectifier

P-2 = 5150

M-2 = Marshall JCM800

D-2 = Diezel

Vt-2 - VHT

and the rest... http://amtelectronics.com/products/

ChrisMusic

Brilliant, thanks for that @fretmeister.

All it says about the R2's bloodline on their site is : "Rectifier series amps by Mesa / Boogie is yet another benchmark in modern sound that simply cannot be ignored".

As was pointed out in an earlier comment, there are rather a lot of amps produced by Mesa, so that narrows it down nicely, cheers.

I hope it is going well with your Zon sale, that is a spectacularly good bass  

The mighty Soldano is definitely on my list too.

fretmeister

I hope the Zon sells too!

I'm hoping to get a good double bass. I've put that off for too long, I've now found a teacher so now I need the bass!

spacecadet

Being a massive Andy Timmons fan, I can tell you anything you want to know about his rig. As far as getting the sound, thats something I have been working on mainly cause it's about as close to the sound in my head as anyone I've heard.

This is essentially what I'm running. I start with a Fender based amp (currently Budda Superdrive v-40). The clean sound always has compression on it. Not lots, just enough to add a little sparkle and help polish the turd that is my playing. Dirtyness in the Timmons style is delivered rather convincingly by a Radial Tonebone. Either the Classic or the Trimode depending on what I feel like that wee. Those both seem to get "that" tone. Dark but clear with plenty of dynamics and response to pickups, volume controls and picking. Everything else on top of that is icing. Delay wise I just use a standard tape/ analog delay emulation from whatever I'm using. Bit of verb and you're golden. I'll try and record something for you. It's worth remembering that the old cliche of tone is in the fingers really does apply in this instance. When I'm going for his sound I have to change the way I play and become much more expressive to come even close.

ChrisMusic

@fretmeister, that double bass making video is incredible, I really had no idea there was so very much work involved, seeing it play out before your eyes brings home the immense craftsmanship, and immense size of the quality woods needed.

I was also staggered by the immense prices for them, but having watched the care, materials, skills and time involved, I genuinely am in awe.

The whole PRS Private Stock thing seems to pale somewhat in comparison, modern electric guitars are so basic when viewed that way.

A bit of an eye opener thanks,  and good luck with finding your new instrument.