How does Andy Timmons get his sound ???

ChrisMusic

Hey @Elx - sanity, what sanity ?   

Elx

ChrisMusic said:

Hey @Elx - sanity, what sanity ?   

OK, fair enough, go for it then!

xwolf5150

ChrisMusic;317727" said:

Hey @Elx - sanity, what sanity ?   

If you're looking to buy a Strobostomp II , give me a shout.
I've got one I don't use.

ChrisMusic

I was more looking into how Andy Timmons chooses and uses gear to get the tones he does, and how his use of technique phrasing etc also contributes to that.

That is basically how this journey started off, so I thought I would share the findings with the rest of you, in case it helps anyone else discover some building blocks for their own "tone quest".

Thanks for the thought @wolf5150.  I wasn't actually looking for one, but if you want to PM me some details etc...

ChrisMusic

More interesting Andy Timmons discussion in this thread too:

http://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/21393/what-a-fat#latest

ChrisMusic

2011 Album preview -   Andy Timmons Band plays Sgt. Pepper

edit:  I will be posting the "how it was recorded" videos very soon.

Strawberry fields

Duration 5:06

Sgt Pepper

Duration 2:16

ChrisMusic

The answer to the part of my original question "I am particularly thinking about the thick, congested almost choking distortion, which would not be a "go to" sound for me if experimenting in isolation, but sounds fantastic in this context", for anyone interested in that bit: the thick chewy stuff is the Tube Works Tube Driver into the clean channel of the Mesa Stiletto.

He uses the Stiletto clean, driven and with the Tube Driver, for 3 very different tones.  The Stiletto is basically Mesa’s take on the early Marshall sound, and their only one to use EL34s, so quite authentic when set up for Marshally stuff.

The amp is now discontinued, unfortunately.  It would be interesting to know why, does anyone here know ?

Here is Mesa’s page on it.

http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/stiletto/StilettoDeuce.htm

ChrisMusic

Here is some information on the BK Butler Tube Driver.

A pedal which he still makes (see link below), and is used by Eric Johnson, David Gilmour, Billy Gibbons, Joe Satriani, Kenny Wayne Shepherd, J Mascis, David Holt, and many other guitarists  too.

History of the various incarnations:

Interestingly he describes the version used by Andy Timmons as “not very good sound”   ! ! !

——————————————

204 Tube Driver (BK Butler) - 3 knobs, blue enclosure. The earliest Tube Driver, hand made by BK Butler, circa 1979

303 Smooth Pure Tube (Tube Works) - 5 knobs, blue triangular enclosure. Same pcb as the 901 and 903 models, but with some component value changes.

901 Real Tube (Tube Works) - 5 knobs, black with yellow graphics. Medium gain. A bit harsher and more fuzzy than the later 911 model. Circa 1986.

903 Blue Tube / Enhancer (Tube Works) - 5 knobs, blue with yellow graphics. A smoother, lower gain version of the Real Tube, similar to a Tube Screamer. Same pcb as the 901, but with some component value changes.

903 Blue Tube Bass Driver (Tube Works) - Same as above, tuned for Bass guitar.

910 Tube Driver (Tube Works) - 3 knobs, small case tan with black graphics. Lower cost, entry level TD. High gain, more like a fuzz pedal. More of a distortion than an overdrive, and not a very good sound. Butler stopped making pedal versions of the Tube Driver for a while after this.

911 Tube Driver / Classic Tube Overdrive (Tube Works) - Around 1993-94 the TD Chandler began making TD's again. 4 knobs, tan with black graphics. Goes from low gain drive to high gain overdrive/distortion.

911 Tube Driver / Classic Tube Overdrive (Chandler / BK Butler) - Same as above, but made by Chandler in Taiwan circa 1994. Chandler was handling manufacture and distribution for Butler.

911 Tube Driver (unauthorized Chandler version) - 4 knobs, tan with black graphics. Butler ended his relationship with Chandler, so theymade theis unauthorized version. Different circuit and sound than the original with a different EQ stage. Butler took Chandler to court and stopped them.

911 Tube Driver (BK Butler 2006 reissue) - 4 knobs, tan with black graphics. Reissue of Butlers original 911 design, with a slightly different circuit and sound.

——————————————

Butler Audio website:

http://www.butleraudio.com

If you want to read more about BK Butler and the Tube Driver, there is a good interview over on the Tone from Heaven website, “a look into the effects used by David Gilmour”

http://www.tonefromheaven.com

Also more info here, including the history in this post which I “borrowed”.

http://www.kitrae.net/music/Music_mp3_Tube_Driver_Sound.html

ChrisMusic

Tube Works 3 knob Tube Driver guitar pedal demo with Kingbee strat, Dr Z M12, and GearManDude at the helm.

Duration 5:16

Here are some Xotic BB demos:

BB, AT BB, BBMB comparisons (starts approx 1:10 in)

Duration 6:47

Xotic Effects RC Booster, AC (Voxy) Booster, BB (Blues Breaker) Preamp - PGS Andy demo

individual and stacked

Duration 7:38

Which Xotic Booster/Preamp is Right for ME?? with JustNick

Duration 10:58

Edit 2015: added this

Interview with Dave Weiner "BB Preamp Comparison"   ~ ~ ~ this is an excellent comparison video

Duration 10:39

ChrisMusic

GuitarMania.eu Austrian interview in May 2013,

the gear bit starts just after 14 mins in.

The sound quality is not great, poor engineering, I'm afraid, but interesting content

Duration 30.23

ChrisMusic

Is this the ultimate guide to getting that “Andy Timmons Tone” ? ….

These videos are so insightful on many levels, not just gear and recording, but musical approach and perspective and much more.  If you have any interest in this discussion and in Andy Timmons as a player, I highly recommend watching them all.

Andy Timmons Band plays Sgt. Pepper - Guitars, Amps and Effects - part 1, 2 &3

the cab isolation booth is a technical tour de force  

Duration 9:47

Duration 9:12

Duration 6:31

richardhomer

Is there any more information available on how Andy Timmons gets his sound?

ChrisMusic

Well, it takes a lifetime to become who we are...

ChrisMusic

I have updated the gear list (about halfway down P3 of this discussion)

I have updated the last two posts on P3 with pedal demos and another AT interview.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I would like to take a moment to thank you to everyone who has contributed to this discussion.  It is part of my personal journey to discovering what I want to say on the guitar, and some of the equipment to realise a small part of that.

I have learnt so much more along the way by listening to Andy Timmons play, and learning about how he approaches everything musical.  I find him an inspiration.  This has been a valuable way for me to explore the relationship between technique and sound.

I hope it has been helpful to some of you too.  I am very grateful to you all.  Cheers...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

IMHO, the ultimate ingredient in our sound, our tone, or whatever we want to call it for convenience, is who we are.

It may sound trite, but that is what dictates how we hear music, what we like and dislike, the choice to pick up the guitar and learn, and to strive to become proficient enough to create the music in our heads, to express ourselves, whether that is from other peoples catalogue or of our own composition.  

It is the source of how we phrase and construct what we play, what motivates us and what makes our spirits soar.

It guides our preferences and choices of guitars, pedals, amps and other equipment, to learn and understand the potential for developing the sonic palette to express our creative selves.

Ultimately all theory, knowledge, gear and technique, is at the service of the creative impetus within each of us.  This is what drives us to play after all.

Is it "all in the fingers" ?

~ or ~   is it all in the heart and soul of the player?

It is driven by, and derives from, who we are.

Understanding and expressing that is the journey of a lifetime.

Thanks for your company along the way  

ChrisMusic

This is just the most exquisite performance.  Possibly the most emotive piece of music I have ever heard, and it is live too  

With thanks to @guitarfishbay for showing me this performance in my other discussion on bending technique.  From his 1997 Ibanez 90th anniversary performance.  It is too good to leave there, so it is now here to share  

Seeing as you asked @RichardHomer, yes, apart from the finessing by equipment choices, it’s all in the vision, the eloquence and the fingers, the heart and the soul.

His old tone with the Laney rig is more generic sounding, personally I prefer the more nuanced and varied tones from his more recent rigs detailed in this thread / discussion.  But his composition, phrasing, technique, and the sheer conveyance of emotion in the piece is just sublime.

Simon Phillips is an amazing drummer too, enjoy…

Duration 7:24

littlegreenman

Bit of a necro-bump, but this is now out:

http://andytimmons.com/electric_expression.php

xwolf5150

I shall be ordering the disc version of that.
I hope he makes a shit load of money from it.
4 hours of lessons !!!!

monquixote

Just watched the intro. 

Seriously considering buying a copy. 

EDIT just bought a copy. 

Using the code on the site plus my student discount from already being a Trufire member it came to about £19 which is a bargain for four hours of video lessons.

xwolf5150

Bought the disc+download.

Current estimated download time remaining ..2 hrs !!!!

Vaiai

Nuno posted up recently about how he got to try EVHs rig at a gig once and he was so excited but when he had a go it just sounded like him - so much of it is the player, the fingers, the vibrato and the overall technique that distinguishes these guys from the rest.
A big mistake when starting is to think if you get "this" amp, "those" pedals and "that" guitar, you'll sound perfect but it's not the case.

We can work out what amps he used or what pickups but we'll not sound like Andy!

Experience is the only way to get a feel for how different amps or guitars sound but that takes a long time and playing an amp in your room is a million miles away from mic'ing up on stage with that same one!

All you can say is that certain amps/pickups and guitars have a certain characteristic/tone but it's what you do with it that makes it sound a certain way.