Amp dirt or Pedals

hotpickups

This question was asked on here not so long ago but I can't find the thread to add to it So I thought I'd share my revised thoughts on my own thread. Amp dirt has always been my favourite but until recently that line of though has let me down. I have a two channel amp which i programmed my board to switch channels for lead breaks etc. That's a great idea until one plugs into another amp that doesn't have switchable channels i.e. a single channel amp. I got around it but it did make me think how dodgy it can be in a real Live context if one is a travelling musician etc. Since, I've gone back to pedal dirt as that can be tailored to suit the amp somewhat.

Just put on the board a ThorpyFx Warthog v2 and a compressor and I think I'm done ... for now . Pedals are the answer for me but has anyone else had the same enlightenment

prlgmnr

For me it's amp for rhythm and pedals for lead. 

ICBM

prlgmnr said:

For me it's amp for rhythm and pedals for lead. 

Same here. I like amps for clean and moderate crunch, but no higher gain than that. Pedals in front of a crunchy amp sound best for lead to me, but a pedal in front of a clean amp can be good too. By in front, I mean to add distortion at roughly the same volume, not to push the amp harder.

When I was gigging with guitar I would always have a backup 'crunch' pedal to use after the pedalboard if the amp didn't have a second channel.

jellybelly

I think amp drive breaks down into two camps also - the saturated preamp sound (modern channel switchers with their roots in the '80s amps like the original Mesa and JCM800s etc) which works for heavy rock and that saturated lead sound, and the cranked power section (vintage-style non-master volume amps) where it's more spluttery and ragged (depending on the amp).

Beyond light breakup, the majority of the music I listen to (alternative indie and rock) is all pedal-driven, so that's generally what appeals to me. I'm not against the idea of channel switchers but like @prlgmnr I'd just be using it for multiple rhythm 'base' tones.

That, plus pedals are so easily swapped and offer so much versatility it's silly. An amp generally has a core sound that you either like or you don't...

monquixote

It's a bit of a non question.

Pretty much everyone who does heavy stuff is going to use a high gain amp and everyone else is going to be mild gain plus a drive pedal.

The main thing I've found is that most channel switching amps don't work very well live.

markr76

I have also gone down path recently and couldn’t be happier. I was a fan of 1 channel amps set crunchy. I used to be set a little hotter than an acdc tone. Then back off the volume on the guitar for cleans and run a boost for a bit more juice. I then would pop an eq or boost into the effect loop for a volume lift if needed. 
My last amp was a badcat hotcat 30r and I used this the same way. But started to find it a little too dark and compressed. It was still a fantastic amp though. Never bonded with the clean channel though. 
I bought a Hamstead artist 60rt at the start of the year and a gigrig g2.
I’m loving the fact that I can easily flip drive pedals that are completely different to each other. Still trying to find what is my favourite combo. But the Thorpy gunshot is my main drive. I have a Mythos Herculean v2 for low gain on the board and a Bogner Burnley for higher gain. I’m thinking about dropping the Burnley off though as I think the gunshot can cover that off. Also changing the mythos for a Dane. As that has a boost also. Plus I love the Dane. I’ve also got a warthog and peacekeeper. So just trying to work out a more final lineup. 
I did my first gig with the amp at full 60w mode last weekend and I think its the best live sound I’ve ever had! 
I think if you’ve got that strong clean foundation it makes all the difference. Plus I’ve not found a pedal the Hamstead doesn’t like yet. 

ICBM

monquixote said:

The main thing I've found is that most channel switching amps don't work very well live.

I've never had that experience at all, with any channel-switcher I've ever used live - which is at least Mesa, Marshall, Fender, Crate, Peavey, Kustom, Hughes & Kettner, and probably some others I'm forgetting at provided-backline gigs...

monquixote

Generally I find they always have at least one channel that sounds shit and a lot of them have one channel that's completely clean and another that's uber gain.

ICBM

monquixote said:

Generally I find they always have at least one channel that sounds shit and a lot of them have one channel that's completely clean and another that's uber gain.

I always want one channel to be completely clean so that may partly explain it - but I don't think I've ever found one where the other channel can't be turned down far enough to not have too much gain, and I can't remember any where either channel was unusably bad-sounding either, although of course some are better than others.

The main problem comes with amps with shared EQ on both channels, but it's still usually possible to get them to work - it's often better to dial them in for the dirty channel, which is almost always the more fussy - even though I would prefer to have a good clean sound if it actually isn't possible to balance them properly.

monquixote

I expect with enough time you can probably do something with most amps but Ive had enough shared backline gigs where you get a 5 min changeover or are even forbidden from touching the amps that pedals into clean seems safer.

octatonic

monquixote said:

Generally I find they always have at least one channel that sounds shit and a lot of them have one channel that's completely clean and another that's uber gain.

Never owned a CAA/Suhr then?

PT50 or PT100 have 3 great channels.
1 is clean to crunch.
2 is crunch to high gain and 3 is the same as 2 but with separate gain and level, so great at a solo boost with a bit more hair.
I don't use gain pedals with this amp- and it has an amazing loop.

I agree it is hard to find.

monquixote

octatonic said:

monquixote said:

Generally I find they always have at least one channel that sounds shit and a lot of them have one channel that's completely clean and another that's uber gain.

Never owned a CAA/Suhr then?

PT50 or PT100 have 3 great channels.
1 is clean to crunch.
2 is crunch to high gain and 3 is the same as 2 but with separate gain and level, so great at a solo boost with a bit more hair.
I don't use gain pedals with this amp- and it has an amazing loop.

I agree it is hard to find.

I expect they exist but I've given up finding one.

When I did use a switching amp I also found having to run FX loop and footpedal cables made short changeovers more stressful.

octatonic

monquixote said:

octatonic said:

monquixote said:

Generally I find they always have at least one channel that sounds shit and a lot of them have one channel that's completely clean and another that's uber gain.

Never owned a CAA/Suhr then?

PT50 or PT100 have 3 great channels.
1 is clean to crunch.
2 is crunch to high gain and 3 is the same as 2 but with separate gain and level, so great at a solo boost with a bit more hair.
I don't use gain pedals with this amp- and it has an amazing loop.

I agree it is hard to find.

I expect they exist but I've given up finding one.

When I did use a switching amp I also found having to run FX loop and footpedal cables made short changeovers more stressful.

You need an interface box and a labelled 4 cable loom.
Prewire your pedalboard so that it has a little box at the end of it for 'out to amp input', 'FX send' 'FX Return' and 'Channel switch'.
Ideally colour code the jack plug sleeve and the plug sockets to make it easy.

ICBM

monquixote said:

I expect with enough time you can probably do something with most amps but Ive had enough shared backline gigs where you get a 5 min changeover or are even forbidden from touching the amps that pedals into clean seems safer.

Yes, to be honest for anything like that I always used my Mesa V-Twin pedal into a clean amp. Given a proper soundcheck it was almost never necessary though.

monquixote

Yeah I did all that then one of the cables in my loom failed and we were late starting the set  while I fucked about. After that 1 cable and two drive pedals seemed much more appealing.

Same thing with bloody pedal switchers. Great until they fail at a gig then you are shafted.

octatonic

monquixote said:

Yeah I did all that then one of the cables in my loom failed and we were late starting the set  while I fucked about. After that 1 cable and two drive pedals seemed much more appealing.

Same thing with bloody pedal switchers. Great until they fail at a gig then you are shafted.

Tricky with shared stages, I agree.

Keefy

I rarely play squeaky clean, I like the dynamic response that comes from being on the cusp of dirtiness! I gig one of two single channel amps, one with a pre/master volume, one without, just on the point of breakup. That breakup comes from either balancing the pre and master volumes, or from the natural breakup of a 12w amp being used in a band context. I use the guitar's volume control and/or clean boost to give me more of that breakup, or if I need a lot more gain I'll use pedals.

That works for me, but I'm 100% in favour of other people using what works for them.

monquixote

All my experience comes from playing lots of shitty toilet circuit gigs and support slots.

It's probably easier for guys who are a bit more high end than me.

Caffeine_Vampire

Amp and a use your volume knob or boost pedal for a solo. Keep it simple, less goes wrong that way. 

TTBZ

I've not played a high gain pedal that sounds or feels as good as a decent amp. If it exists then I'd maybe consider using it and a pedal platform amp. The Bogner ones do seem great to be fair, just haven't tried one yet.

But I never play truly clean either, part of the reason I got into amp drive was because it felt a bit wrong running a MIAB into a Fender, never actually using the amp for its own sound. Having "my sound" available on my pedalboard through any amp does appeal, especially at gigs/rehearsals with shared backline.

shaunm

An amp works so long as it’s the right amp for the venue. So for a pub a JCM800 is likely not to be right on it’s own and pedals will be a great addition. 

If youre playing a gig where you can get a bit of volume then amp drive does work. 

Then the tool aspect comes into it. In a covers band I’d have thought pedals would be better as you’d have more tonal versatility. Function work, forget amp crunch and use a helix. 

Tool for the job and venue.

I like amp crunch and a fuzzface