Is tone in your hands or equipments?

KrisGee

Cols said:

I don’t understand the negative comments in this thread.  The OP has made some videos on subjects very relevant to guitars - as well as the above, some gear reviews and a piece on speed picking - and posted links to them as his first contributions to the forum.  What’s the problem?

For my tuppence worth - it’s a combination of everything.  If gear played no part Jimmy Page would sound just as awesome playing air guitar as he does with a Les Paul and a Marshall Plexi.  Similarly, if fingers played no part I could sound just like anyone provided I had their rig.

I don't get the negative comments too. Playing wasn't best but video sparked a discussion and some of the comments were very interesting to read. How this isn't a contribution to the forum? Certainly better than people only stopping by to sell something and disappearing right after.

Back to the subject - combination of picking plus articulation is what creates the tone for me, gear is just a sort of transmitter.

Sassafras

I never use the word tone when talking about the sound of an instrument.
Mainly because I don't know what it means in that context.

thecolourbox

When I use my signature sound of ebow through envelope filter into an octave divider, it's definitely all in the fingers

robinbowes

Voxman said:

robinbowes said:

ICBM said:

No-one can get a tone like for example Steve Vai on For The Love Of God with a Strat and a Fender Twin and just their hands. Not even Vai.

This raises the distinction between "sound" and "tone".

For me, "tone" is more personal, and includes those tell-tale signs that let you identify a guitarist in relatively few notes.

<snip>

But then we might actually all be saying the same thing, but using different interpretations of language, which is where all the debate, argument and confusion might be coming from. 

This.

When most people say "tone" they mean what I call "sound". I'm not saying my definition is correct, but it's all mine

R.

EricTheWeary

welcome to the forum @arayadis ;;;;;

It depends doesn't it? Are we talking a strat into a Marshall or a strat into three fuzzboxes, a flanger and a delay into a Marshall? 

And how many of us regularly hear 'raw' guitar tones? How much has that sound been messed around by a producer or sound engineer? 

BB King for example was a very recognisable player but his actual sound varied quite a bit over the years. It seems to be much more about style than tone. 

thegummy

Is there even a debate?

There are many things hotly debated by people who know what they're talking about but surely any reasonable knowledge person knows the answer is both.

Arjailer

Yes, though I think the part that makes a "great" tone isn't the equipment (that anyone could buy or replicate), but the player (who's talent is way more difficult to replicate).

Philtre

ICBM

thegummy said:

Is there even a debate?

There are many things hotly debated by people who know what they're talking about but surely any reasonable knowledge person knows the answer is both.

Completely agreed. Where I disagree is that the majority of the *tone* - as opposed to technique - which makes a player recognisable, is in the hands. I would say it’s at least 80%, maybe 90% in the gear.

Get any player to play just one note, cleanly, with no vibrato, with the same guitar and amp, and see how different they really sound.

Not very.

robinbowes

"Get any player to play without any of their distinctive personal characteristics and they'll sound the same"

soma1975

Clapton sounds like Clapton on a 335 or Strat, or through a Champ or a Soldano SLO, which couldn’t really be further apart. 

Technique is the key to tone. How to attack and finish notes. 

A great sculptor could still make something in his in his or her style with an unfamiliar chisel, but the one he or she prefers may inspire him. Or her. Or they. Sheesh. 

thegummy

soma1975 said:

Clapton sounds like Clapton on a 335 or Strat, or through a Champ or a Soldano SLO, which couldn’t really be further apart. 

Technique is the key to tone. How to attack and finish notes. 

A great sculptor could still make something in his in his or her style with an unfamiliar chisel, but the one he or she prefers may inspire him. Or her. Or they. Sheesh. 

Clapton isn't going to start making speed metal if he's handed a pointy Schecter and a triple rectifier, it's still going to be bluesy adult contemporary but it will have a different tone to his usual Strat into a fender.

starwarsnosebleed

I cant seem to find a decent tone in my hands or my equipment....Maybe if i buy a few more pedals i’ll find it.

John_A

timmypix said:

So another account that doesn't contribute to the forum apart from when they've got a YouTube video to promote?

Don't be so rude to people.  

The video is very relevant.  If EVH posted a 'check out my new album' post would you have a go at him?  The more people that contribute guitar related stuff the better IMO, and if anyone that posts is made to feel welcome they might just stay and contribute a bit more instead of thinking 'this place is full of dicks' and moving on.

@arayadis  welcome to the forum, there are some decent people around here

Stuckfast

robinbowes said:

Also, we're not all guys.

Um, wishful thinking aside, we kind of are, though.

Greatape

mikeyrob73 said:

its all in the plectrums,everybody knows this 

There is some truth in this...

soma1975

thegummy said:

soma1975 said:

Clapton sounds like Clapton on a 335 or Strat, or through a Champ or a Soldano SLO, which couldn’t really be further apart. 

Technique is the key to tone. How to attack and finish notes. 

A great sculptor could still make something in his in his or her style with an unfamiliar chisel, but the one he or she prefers may inspire him. Or her. Or they. Sheesh. 

Clapton isn't going to start making speed metal if he's handed a pointy Schecter and a triple rectifier, it's still going to be bluesy adult contemporary but it will have a different tone to his usual Strat into a fender.

He sounded very much like Clapton going from a regular Strat and Champ to a Mega Strat with active mid boost and Lace Sensors and a Soldano which is almost as much of a change as the one you posted. 

merciful-evans

The question is naïve. Fingers vs equipment? It’s a false premise to start with.

‘Tone’ has several definitions. None of them are applicable to the expression ‘tone is in the fingers’. Some say ‘tone’ when they mean timbre or sound.

 

Yes I can recognise some guitarists by ear, but it has more to do with phrasing or pick style. Neither of which are encompassed by the term ‘tone’.

 

For me, ‘tone is in the fingers’ explains nothing. It’s a cop out term that some find attractive. Maybe because it sounds enigmatic?  It can justify nice playing and excuse poor playing. It can mean exactly what you want it to mean precisely because it’s vague and woolly.

Yes I agree with Greatape & mikeyrob73 about the importance of plectrums too.

ICBM

robinbowes said:

"Get any player to play without any of their distinctive personal characteristics and they'll sound the same"

Exactly. It's the distinctive phrasing, pick attack, vibrato etc which make them distinctive, *not* the tone.

What you're talking about is technique, not tone.

Grangousier

ICBM said:

Get any player to play just one note, cleanly, with no vibrato, with the same guitar and amp, and see how different they really sound.

Not very.

Actually, that's not true. I've heard a number of people play the same open string on roughly the same kind of acoustic guitar using the same kind of pick one after another and there's an enormous variety - different volumes, different cleanness of picking, confident, hesitant. They're obviously all the same kind of thing, and sound the same compared to, say, an electric guitar or a bass guitar or a mandolin or a euphonium, but between them you'll find a number of different personalities.