Avengers Spoiler contained dont read unless seen

RaymondLin

stickyfiddle said:

DrJazzTap said:

I saw this yesterday, nice to go into a film not knowing everything (although I did know about Prof Hulk and the quantum realm time travel stuff- set photos). My own fault for looking online beforehand.

I had no idea about Hulk, so that was nice. I didn't know the quantum thing, but assumed it would be the obvious thing after Antman 2.

I was slightly surprised Nat didn't re-appear on the timeywimeydevicey at the end - I would have been asking for her back in return for giving the soul stone back to mr Skull there. But I was very happy with Steve's end. And still plenty of room to have him back later via the de-oldenator if they decide they'd like some more OG Captain America action.

Nat (or anyone) to died for the soul stone is a 1 way ticket.

Gamora that returned in the end is the Gamora in Guardians of tghe Galaxy 1, and her character basically went through the mental ride in that movie in this film in the last 45mins.  She is not the Gamora that died for the Soul Stone.

I guess they could go back in time and pluck another Black Widow forward in time, but then it will alter the timeline in that universe completely.

Jalapeno

Over-long, but I did enjoy it.

Glaring plot hole for me is that in GOTG1 it took all of them to hold just one Infinity Stone, and one of them is a deity, but the Avengers could chuck them around like smarties (except of course Iron Man at the end, but he had to use them first).

Liked the transitions & exits, and I guess Robert Downey Jr and Scarlett J have good box office pulls, unlike the rest. (I did guffaw at Gwyneth in an Iron Man suit though).

Thor/The Dude gag was a laff, but overstayed it's welcome in the end, he should've gone on a get-in-shape session but maybe that's for the next GOTG.  Hope they bring back Gamora, but like RDJ/SJ Zoe Saldana is a very bankable star in her own right.

smudge_lad

It was good, but I was fairly underwhelmed by a few parts. When I left the cinema after Infinity War, I'd been blown away, but didn't feel the same after Endgame.

I don't know enough about the Prof Hulk story arc in the comics, which is probably why I was severely disappointed by this. I just wanted to see Hulk smash things, and have a proper good fight/revenge brawl with Thanos. My mate was saying that Prof Hulk is the "ultimate Hulk" with brains and brawn, but there wasn't enough brawn for me. The Hulk was great in Avengers and Ragnarok, so I felt Prof Hulk was a bit of a let down.

As above, Fat Thor was funny for most of the film, but it wore thin. If re-gaining Mjolnir and Stormbreaker could tidy his hair and beard, surely it could have got rid of his gut? And again like Hulk, Thor in Ragnarok and IW was nails, and I genuinely believed he could give Thanos a real run for his money, but he just seemed puny in the fight scenes. Especially when you compare him to how effective Cap was when he got hold of Mjolnir.

Pepper Potts flying around kicking ass was really poor for me. Took Tony Stark a wee while to get used to the flying and combat, yet PP was instantly able to do it all. Meh!

Good ending for Iron Man, although since it turned out to be him who ended Thanos, I'm gutted the "left arm" theory didn't pan out, because that would have been the absolute icing on the cake for me

TheMarlin

smudge_lad said:

It was good, but I was fairly underwhelmed by a few parts. When I left the cinema after Infinity War, I'd been blown away, but didn't feel the same after Endgame.

I don't know enough about the Prof Hulk story arc in the comics, which is probably why I was severely disappointed by this. I just wanted to see Hulk smash things, and have a proper good fight/revenge brawl with Thanos. My mate was saying that Prof Hulk is the "ultimate Hulk" with brains and brawn, but there wasn't enough brawn for me. The Hulk was great in Avengers and Ragnarok, so I felt Prof Hulk was a bit of a let down.

As above, Fat Thor was funny for most of the film, but it wore thin. If re-gaining Mjolnir and Stormbreaker could tidy his hair and beard, surely it could have got rid of his gut? And again like Hulk, Thor in Ragnarok and IW was nails, and I genuinely believed he could give Thanos a real run for his money, but he just seemed puny in the fight scenes. Especially when you compare him to how effective Cap was when he got hold of Mjolnir.

Pepper Potts flying around kicking ass was really poor for me. Took Tony Stark a wee while to get used to the flying and combat, yet PP was instantly able to do it all. Meh!

Good ending for Iron Man, although since it turned out to be him who ended Thanos, I'm gutted the "left arm" theory didn't pan out, because that would have been the absolute icing on the cake for me

100% agree, the pathetic showing of 'Prof Hulk' was a massive let down for me.  Hulk is supposed to be the hardest fight Thanos ever had, he wins, but doesn't ever relish a fight with Hulk. So when Hulk sodded off for a sulk in the first film, I thought he would save his strength for a huge battle in the second half.  But no, we got nerd hulk, nothing but a big wet blanket.

Prof Hulk can just sod off.  

stickyfiddle

Jalapeno said:

Thor/The Dude gag was a laff, but overstayed it's welcome in the end, he should've gone on a get-in-shape session but maybe that's for the next GOTG.  Hope they bring back Gamora, but like RDJ/SJ Zoe Saldana is a very bankable star in her own right.

If they don’t do a parks & rec “I just stopped drinking beer” joke I will be sad.

DrJazzTap

Prof hulk is the weakest iteration of the character i was kind of hoping he would snap and go full on world breaker. Possibly when black widow sacrificed herself. 

smudge_lad

DrJazzTap said:

Prof hulk is the weakest iteration of the character i was kind of hoping he would snap and go full on world breaker. Possibly when black widow sacrificed herself. 

Yep, and the fact he couldn’t bring her back. Would have been great to see

Bebopper

DrJazzTap said:

Prof hulk is the weakest iteration of the character i was kind of hoping he would snap and go full on world breaker. Possibly when black widow sacrificed herself. 

I would have liked to see Banner and Black Widow go for the soul stone. Her sacrifice would have meant more, given their unrequited romantic interest in each other.

I didn't buy into the deep friendship / platonic love between Black Widow and Hawkeye during the soul stone sequence - I didn't notice in previous films that they were particularly close friends.

TheMarlin

Bebopper said:

DrJazzTap said:

Prof hulk is the weakest iteration of the character i was kind of hoping he would snap and go full on world breaker. Possibly when black widow sacrificed herself. 

I would have liked to see Banner and Black Widow go for the soul stone. Her sacrifice would have meant more, given their unrequited romantic interest in each other.

I didn't buy into the deep friendship / platonic love between Black Widow and Hawkeye during the soul stone sequence - I didn't notice in previous films that they were particularly close friends.

Their close friendship was pretty clear in Age of Ultron. She was the only one who had previously met Hawkeyes family (or even knew he had one), and the baby was named after her. 

colourofsound

Interesting no ones mentioned Captain Marvel (or lack thereof) in this film. I think they could have done a lot more with her, and it would have made a lot of sense plot wise if she was around.

So overpowered though, film would've been half the length...

digitalscream

colourofsound said:

Interesting no ones mentioned Captain Marvel (or lack thereof) in this film. I think they could have done a lot more with her, and it would have made a lot of sense plot wise if she was around.

I don't think it would've made that much sense - she's effectively nothing to the audience here - she's had no character arc, even in her own film, she's never been challenged, and she has no jeopardy, and certainly no growth. I also have a feeling her part was edited down after her recent PR disaster. In fact, I wonder if the only reason they left her in it at all was because there was no reasonable way to get Tony and Nebula back without some kind of deus ex machina.

I'm glad about that, because this film should never have been about her. It was about a send-off for the characters who've grown in front of us for many, many films. Shoehorning her in at this point feels reminiscent of the reason DC's films failed to catch - jumping straight to the payoff without building the characters enough first.

colourofsound said:

So overpowered though, film would've been half the length...

For all the talk of her being OP, I don't think she was - in the end, Thanos chucked her around like a rag doll even without the stones.

My take on the film...it's a great film, but I don't think it could ever have matched up to Infinity War. I did love the way they managed to tie up all the OG Avengers' storylines in such a way that they won't be coming back without resorting to killing them all off (with the exception of Thor, obviously).

Favourite moments? Well, both of them involve Cap, which surprised me; there's Mjolnir, obviously, but also...

"Hail Hydra"

Genius, and a nice callback to the comics too.

digitalscream

Also: I came away with the distinct impression that the first encounter with Thanos wasn't actually about Thanos at all. It might've partly been there to explain alcoholic-Thor (although that could easily have been done without it), but it was mostly about explaining Hulk's exit from the MCU - to show how badly the stones wrecked characters of his power level. He's now useless in almost all superhero-type situations.

That was quite neat, IMO.

stickyfiddle

digitalscream said:

 "Hail Hydra"

Genius, and a nice callback to the comics too.

That whole sequence was fantastic. The total parallel of the other elevator scene, and a complete about-turn on the outcome. Just fantastic.

colourofsound

@digitalscream ;

I also have a feeling her part was edited down after her recent PR disaster

What PR disaster was that?

I don't think it would've made that much sense - she's effectively nothing to the audience here - she's had no character arc, even in her own film, she's never been challenged, and she has no jeopardy, and certainly no growth. ...
I'm glad about that, because this film should never have been about her. It was about a send-off for the characters who've grown in front of us for many, many films.

Sorry I should've been more clear - yes I totally understand why, from the films standpoint, she couldn't be in it - it's not about her after all (aside from the fact Brie Larson didn't even know who Captain Marvel was when filming Endgame)

What I mean is, there wasn't enough logic in place to exclude her, for my liking. All the characters know how powerful she is, and whilst yes, she was supposed to be helping other planets, the work the Avengers were doing was to undo that and her powers would've been a considerable asset in pretty much every confrontation they have in the film - it didn't make sense for her *not* to be with the Avengers.

At the end of the day, if you were Tony and Steve and you were up against Thanos and had seen what Marvel could do - you'd want her around...

In which case - she probably shouldn't have been in the film at all. Her absence prevents all of those questions and lack of logical decisions for her to be around.

If you see what I mean!

For all the talk of her being OP, I don't think she was - in the end, Thanos chucked her around like a rag doll even without the stones.

He headbutts her and it sounds like a pan hitting a wall - she could totally overpower him. She forces open his gauntlet-ed hand with a smile on her face...

If you remember, he had to rip the Power Stone out of the gauntlet and punch her with it to knock her out for the rest of the fight.

The portrayal of her powers in both Endgame and Marvel are so massive that she would be the absolute answer to all of the films problems - and thusly she couldn't be around otherwise there'd be no film!

darthed1981

colourofsound said:

The portrayal of her powers in both Endgame and Marvel are so massive that she would be the absolute answer to all of the films problems - and thusly she couldn't be around otherwise there'd be no film!

The in-film explanation for it is fine though, there are thousands of planets she has to rescue from chaos, and the others don't have Avengers there, so she could easily be absent.

Using her to get rid of Thanos' ship made sense.

Also one of my favourite bits, a little hint that Peter Parker fancies her, I'm looking forward to that being a comic relief in Avengers 5!

"Hey Peter Parker, you got something for me...?"

I've got something for her if Peter doesn't...

digitalscream

darthed1981 said:

I'm looking forward to that being a comic relief in Avengers 5!

One interesting thing I realised after watching Endgame - I'm not sure I'll bother watching the MCU films after this. The newer characters don't interest me as much as the ones who're leaving, and I'm really not sure they ever will.

The trouble is that while the Guardians films will probably be quite good (I never thought they were as good as lots of folk were making out), and as much as I'd like to follow Thor's story (assuming he continues with them)...to get the full context, I think all the films are necessary and I don't think I'll have the will to continue with that.

FarleyUK

What with watching this last night and GoT today, it's been a great 24 hours to be a geek.

Really enjoyed watching this last night - lots of good scenes, and loved how pretty much anyone who was ever in a Marvel film was shoehorned in - even Tony's chauffeur. Pretty much everyone in the cinema was blubbing as well.

Don't quite get the Mjolnir / Cap thing; so he was always 'worthy'? But doesn't that take away from Thor?

Also - loved Thor's beer gut and moobs!

digitalscream

FarleyUK said:

Don't quite get the Mjolnir / Cap thing; so he was always 'worthy'? But doesn't that take away from Thor?

No more so than Vision wielding Mjolnir in Age of Ultron did.

If anything, it builds Cap up even more - it shows that in Age of Ultron, he could've lifted it but he realised that Thor's insecurities meant that he shouldn't.

smudge_lad

digitalscream said:

FarleyUK said:

Don't quite get the Mjolnir / Cap thing; so he was always 'worthy'? But doesn't that take away from Thor?

No more so than Vision wielding Mjolnir in Age of Ultron did.

If anything, it builds Cap up even more - it shows that in Age of Ultron, he could've lifted it but he realised that Thor's insecurities meant that he shouldn't.

Or, at this point he hadn't told Tony about Bucky killing his parents, so wasn't worthy?

digitalscream

smudge_lad said:

digitalscream said:

FarleyUK said:

Don't quite get the Mjolnir / Cap thing; so he was always 'worthy'? But doesn't that take away from Thor?

No more so than Vision wielding Mjolnir in Age of Ultron did.

If anything, it builds Cap up even more - it shows that in Age of Ultron, he could've lifted it but he realised that Thor's insecurities meant that he shouldn't.

Or, at this point he hadn't told Tony about Bucky killing his parents, so wasn't worthy?

The fact that he moved it at all means he was always worthy - nothing in the MCU suggests that Mjolnir's worthiness test is any different than in the comics, which is an all-or-nothing thing.