Has anyone opened a cafe or coffee shop?

stickyfiddle

I worked for an ice cream cafe in Oxford for 18 months (G&D’s if anyone knows Ox). I was running the bakery side of it. 

The USP there was opening till midnight every day, and selling homemade ice cream and baked stuff rather than just coffee and sandwiches. Brownies and cookies were the big seller as well as the ice cream, but that was 10 years ago - tastes may have changed? Either way, dead easy to make, and good for students who either don’t have much cash or want somewhere to study that doesn’t feel “worky”. That combined with summer tourist traffic made 3 shops viable after a few years in operation. 

They did did treat the staff like shit though. Don’t do that, obviously:)

sawyer

I don't know why company's treat workers like shit. It's not the way to get the best out of people. Get them onside for the win

Guitar_Slinger

@sawyer have you worked in a coffee shop or cafe before?  If I were thinking of opening a shop , I'd get a job in somebody else's to learn all the tricks, or even if making making whatever-it-was all day and being overly chirpy to customers so they'll spend more money was for me.

Maybe get a job with your daughter for a taster, or to avoid making schoolboy errors when you start.

sawyer

My daughter's sensibly off to teacher training in September to be a primary school teacher. I'm working in retail at moment to get a feel for it and enjoy pattering on with customers. My other half has worked in fish shops on and off over the years. I'm liking the sandwich/bait van idea that's been mentioned which would be low cost to setup and also guitar cab idea if my upholstery pal was on-board.

guitars4you

The easy answer is to say go for it - I've opened 3  music shops in 40 years from scratch, including Guitars4You - Sold the 2 previous stores some while ago

A detailed plan is essential including any criteria that is unique to you, maybe your music interests as it  is essential to be different - I was told 'to be better you have to be different - To be different you have to be better '  - I'm not into sales chat and such clicky terms, but I know what they mean - I don't mean loud music blasting away, but can you bring into play your music interest/guitars etc etc

Look at as many different coffee shops as you can - Go in and have a coffee - See what they do that is good and bad - Build a portfolio up in your mind of what is good and bad about any experience that you gain from this

I'd try and work in such an environment first to a) see if you like it and b) get some ideas and look at strength and Weakness of such a business and indeed yourself

To me the biggest worry is the bank for financing - Up to a certain amount of the actual business loan, you are often dealing with a junior who loads data into the PC to obtain the result - I recall when a bank manager was someone you looked up to and could speak to, in detail, with years of experience - Now many are now just trainees and under 30 - The more you can do without a bank loan the better - Not sure what your start up costs are and what funds you have - Do you start small, reinvest profits and build, or do you go for it from day one and pay the bank on a day to day basis - My gut feeling is the former

Location is essential and can make or break the business from day one - Then add to this the 'decor/experience' when you walk in - ie is it themed in anyway or looks like something from the Apprentice (the one the losing team go to)

In my town there is no shortage of coffee shops - But 2 stand out - One is small but maximises the outside pavement - Great coffee and home made cakes - I sit outside with my dog, even in the rain and love it - The other is run by 2 young girls - The milk shakes are their USP and totally killers for the youngsters - Coffee is good - Cakes awesome - Decor is rustic and I think would look great in a guitar shop

Don't wear yourself out, but the more you can do the less wages you have to pay to a 3rd party - But equally you need a life outside work

Free 10 penneth from me - Forget the custom guitar case business - IMO dead before you start

Good luck

King85

Location is the key factor in any service industry imo, get that right and provide a decent product and you're set.

sawyer

Thanks chaps all good imfo gratefully received. I'll scratch the case idea:). I'm just feel I g backed in a corner and need to do something. Just getting ready to go to work now for 4 hours 6pm-10pm which is nowt and has meant I've had all day so far to myself and job at DIY store easy enough. But I'm full of anxiety and feeling panicy,hands throbbing. Need to take control.

mgaw

I would defo do it with no borrowings if possible, you can set up a café/diner for very little money indeed, I know cos I did it several times......its a lot of graft, location is VERY important as is GREAT customer care...its good fun and a very rewarding time can be had, but I would say it has to be all in or dont bother

sawyer

Thanks. I've saved a good little nestegg so can invest in something.

ToneControl

as I said earlier, sandwich vans: I used to see one come into our business park every day, where there was no catering, people would queue up to pay £2 or £3 for a butty
Where's the risk? the premises cost?
Not sure if you could end up in a turf war though !

monquixote

I haven't but my dad has run several cafes and restaurants and has one now.

It does seem like you work like a dog for long hours but he loves it and he's come up with lots of ways to make extra cash like doing event catering and food shows.

Apparently the only way to make serious money is to build the business and then sell the lease and then start again so make sure whatever you get gives you the option of doing that.

prowla

The coffee shop market is very flooded and you'll have to work hard to differentiate yourself in some way.

Also, if you upset or disappoint you customers they can always go somewhere else.

guitarcookie1

Look to your local council for match grant funding - down here in South Wales they support you to revamp premises, Finance Wales (or whatever they’re called now) do loans, and Jobs Growth Wales fund staff for a period of time - no direct use to you, but there might be similar where you are. 

sawyer

Thanks man

Teyeplayer

Tread cautiously, I spent some time in the cafe/wine bar trade and know firsthand how difficult it is to make money past the flash of there being a ‘new place’ in town.

Your best bet for certain trade is probably the sandwich van idea, you’ve a captive audience on industrial estates and if you make quality food at a good price word spreads quickly.

Dominic

We know somebody who was a bit lost after redundancy in middle age and became very depressed.
As a novelty , and because he had no special aspiration other than to keep busy ,he bought a trendy old Citroen H van and set up as a mobile espresso and croissant bar and pitched up from 5 a.m. at Epping station every day until 10 30 pm.
After 6 months he had 3 vehicles covering 3 stations on the London commuter fringe .
That was 5 or 6 years ago...........he now has about 8 vans and also does Events , Shopping Mall car parks ,Car boot sales etc.
 He still works one of the vans but his "other car is a Porsche " .......he has also moved to a very expensive house and says he wishes he had known years ago !
 You don't necessarily need a shop.

sawyer

Excellent! Proper rag to riches story. Great when you hear about things like this:) 

exocet

I agree about not needing a shop. Pretty sure that there's going to have to be a complete overhaul of the rent / rate cost structures there over the next 10 years. 

How does the "van" approach work? I.e who decides where you can / cannot pitch up and trade - especially in the cases where you see a small van / tuk tuk pitched up on a pavement / pedestrianised area?

Heartfeltdawn

sawyer said:

I'm sick of working for someone else! I've a tidy bit money saved up and me and my girl have discussed this in the pass. Anyone done it or something similar? I'm talking a quality type affair. Not a greasy spoon or converted caravan. No offense to such establishment's,I do use and enjoy them ha. 

Never started up my own but have been very well acquainted with a number of restaurant startups ranging from tourist locations in Bath to a $750,000 investment restaurant next to the Toronto Stock Exchange and have been involved with them mostly as chef of varying level and occasional accountant. 

Important stuff: 

-Location is everything. If you're not starting out as a "destination venue" (ie. something people are prepared to travel to) then footfall is king and you need to find the right place. Scope out locations, figure out how much potential trade at lunchtime there will be. Schools close by? Major public sector employers who might provide some trade? 

-If you draw up financial plans then add on 33% to 50% at the end ie. if you budget for £20,000, make it £27,000 to £30,000. Opening on time is hard work: opening on budget is even harder and most places I've known underestimated on both. 

-Start out small: running a 7 day a week operation is fucking hard work and requires more staff than a 5 day a week operation. It's far better for a business to build up that to start big and then have to reduce hours. 

-Licensing: everything from booze licensing to finding out from the council if you can have tables outside. Seen loads of places leave this to the last minute and then suffer delays because of this. 

-If you are going to do food then don't use an agency to get a chef because they'll shaft you financially. Instead take time and get the right chef. Use a website like Caterer which is relatively expensive for an ad but the quality of applicant has tended to be better n my experience. 

-Spend some time researching suppliers. 

EricTheWeary

Heartfeltdawn said:

sawyer said:

I'm sick of working for someone else! I've a tidy bit money saved up and me and my girl have discussed this in the pass. Anyone done it or something similar? I'm talking a quality type affair. Not a greasy spoon or converted caravan. No offense to such establishment's,I do use and enjoy them ha. 

Never started up my own but have been very well acquainted with a number of restaurant startups ranging from tourist locations in Bath to a $750,000 investment restaurant next to the Toronto Stock Exchange and have been involved with them mostly as chef of varying level and occasional accountant. 

Important stuff: 

-Location is everything. If you're not starting out as a "destination venue" (ie. something people are prepared to travel to) then footfall is king and you need to find the right place. Scope out locations, figure out how much potential trade at lunchtime there will be. Schools close by? Major public sector employers who might provide some trade? 

-If you draw up financial plans then add on 33% to 50% at the end ie. if you budget for £20,000, make it £27,000 to £30,000. Opening on time is hard work: opening on budget is even harder and most places I've known underestimated on both. 

-Start out small: running a 7 day a week operation is fucking hard work and requires more staff than a 5 day a week operation. It's far better for a business to build up that to start big and then have to reduce hours. 

-Licensing: everything from booze licensing to finding out from the council if you can have tables outside. Seen loads of places leave this to the last minute and then suffer delays because of this. 

-If you are going to do food then don't use an agency to get a chef because they'll shaft you financially. Instead take time and get the right chef. Use a website like Caterer which is relatively expensive for an ad but the quality of applicant has tended to be better n my experience. 

-Spend some time researching suppliers. 

One of the local government offices I occasionally go to closed down it's internal cafe and someone opened a Subway across the road, you see a long line of people outside it every day Monday to Friday. Where I work there is a cafe/ coffee shop within the building run independently. Pretty much a captive audience of several hundred people so I guess it does okay. I know that they have a relationship with a local roasting company who supply all the equipment and the coffee, some of the barista training,etc. It's open Monday to Friday 8 to 3, bank holidays off,etc, so it's possible to run that kind of business without having to do 7 days a week, 12 hour days. I'm presuming the relationship with the supplier is important here otherwise it's just what they can  pick up at the wholesalers and trying to find someone to fix the espresso machine.