Speaker Recommendations for WEM Westminster

JezWynd

Impulse purchase results in an old WEM Watkins Westminster incoming. I can find very little info on the exact model I've acquired but it seems to be a cabinet variation of the Westminster 15 combo. The amp is currently fitted with a Celestion G12 80 16ohm - I think it's a replacement but may be a duplicate of the original.

As the amp is powered by 2 x ECL82's, the speaker seems like overkill and I'm wondering if I might try an Alnico Blue or similar. I'll live with the amp for a while first but are there any speakers that would give me luscious cleans for a home player. It's not going to be used at loud volume but I'm looking for something that will reproduce the cleans and slightly driven sound of P90's. Cabinet is open backed.

ICBM

No, the G12-80 is not remotely original! Charlie would never have fitted something so much overkill as that .

The original would probably have been a black-framed alnico speaker of indeterminate origin, like this:



Although I've seen them with Fanes and Celestion G12S-20s as well, I think.

I would go for a Blue or a Greenback G12M-25 if you want a new speaker, or look for a G12S-20 - they're not very rare or expensive, nor particularly efficient, but they sound very nice for what you want.

LastMantra

Mine had a g12 65 in it when I got it. I've got a green back in it at the mo. Sounds good.

Great wee amp.

I have a Westminster with a Clubman sitting on top of it. Using a DMM clone (behringer) to split. Love it!

JezWynd

Thanks @ICBM, that’s very helpful. The G12M 25 sounds like just the thing. Would I notice much difference if I upgraded to an Alnico blue or is it only at high volume that the differences become noticeable?

ICBM

JezWynd said:

Thanks @ICBM, that’s very helpful. The G12M 25 sounds like just the thing. Would I notice much difference if I upgraded to an Alnico blue or is it only at high volume that the differences become noticeable?

It's not an upgrade, it's just different. You'll hear it at any volume - the Blue is smoother and more 'chimey', the G12M is crunchier and fuzzier. If you want more of a Voxy tone, get the Blue - if you want more Marshally, get the G12M.

The G12S-20 is more like the G12M but with less bottom end.

LastMantra

Is there any problem with using a overrated speaker? I've no reason to believe the 65 isn't original. 

ICBM

LastMantra said:

Is there any problem with using a overrated speaker? I've no reason to believe the 65 isn't original. 

The 65 isn't original.

There's no real problem, just that you don't get any speaker compression, which a lot of people like. On the other hand that tends to make the amp louder and clearer when it's pushed hard.

JezWynd

ICBM said:

JezWynd said:

Thanks @ICBM, that’s very helpful. The G12M 25 sounds like just the thing. Would I notice much difference if I upgraded to an Alnico blue or is it only at high volume that the differences become noticeable?

It's not an upgrade, it's just different. You'll hear it at any volume - the Blue is smoother and more 'chimey', the G12M is crunchier and fuzzier. If you want more of a Voxy tone, get the Blue - if you want more Marshally, get the G12M.

The G12S-20 is more like the G12M but with less bottom end.

Hmm. From your description the Alnico Blue is more the sound I like. If I can bring another one into the mix, how does the Jensen P12q compare to the Blue? Might the lower sensitivity of the Jensen be good?

ICBM

JezWynd said:

Hmm. From your description the Alnico Blue is more the sound I like. If I can bring another one into the mix, how does the Jensen P12q compare to the Blue? Might the lower sensitivity of the Jensen be good?

Yes, probably. It's quite a bit brighter though, and can be fizzy.

Or keep a look out for one of the original speakers - I found that pic on Ebay.

breezytele

Not sure a blue will fit as the cab isn’t very deep

I had a G12 M in mine but again, it was light on bass, so I swapped to a G12 H 30 which I think sounds better

ecc83

Didn't some of the amps have Elac ellipticals in them?

Dave.

LastMantra

ICBM said:

LastMantra said:

Is there any problem with using a overrated speaker? I've no reason to believe the 65 isn't original. 

The 65 isn't original.

There's no real problem, just that you don't get any speaker compression, which a lot of people like. On the other hand that tends to make the amp louder and clearer when it's pushed hard.

Ah right, cool. Tbh I never noticed much difference when I swapped. Seems pretty similar. Might see if I can set up a wee test.

JezWynd

ecc83 said:

Didn't some of the amps have Elac ellipticals in them?

Dave.

Yes, according to the WEM owners site they did. But only 8" or 10" speakers. A search for the brand on eBay brings up lots of old, small elliptic speakers for car radios etc.

LastMantra

What age is it? Mine is one of the later late 70s/early 80s ones. About the same as my The Paul guitar I think.

JezWynd

LastMantra said:

What age is it? Mine is one of the later late 70s/early 80s ones. About the same as my The Paul guitar I think.

Late 70's I believe. This -

LastMantra

That's cool looking! Mine has the controls at the front (at an angle between front and top). Not as interesting as that.

Be good to know how you get on with it. 

JezWynd

LastMantra said:

That's cool looking! Mine has the controls at the front (at an angle between front and top). Not as interesting as that.

Be good to know how you get on with it. 

Thanks. I think the circuit is identical to the Westminster 15, they've just rearranged the fascia. In spite of trawling the web for a couple of hours I've been unable to find any info about it. Looks like something you might have seen in a studio control room circa 1970's.

ICBM

Wow! That's very unusual - I've never seen one like that before, and I thought I'd seen a fair few variations...

p90fool

Mine had an Elac in it, but it was a good deal older than yours.

LastMantra

JezWynd said:

LastMantra said:

That's cool looking! Mine has the controls at the front (at an angle between front and top). Not as interesting as that.

Be good to know how you get on with it. 

Thanks. I think the circuit is identical to the Westminster 15, they've just rearranged the fascia. In spite of trawling the web for a couple of hours I've been unable to find any info about it. Looks like something you might have seen in a studio control room circa 1970's.

Yeah the chassis and controls look the same. 
Think old Charlie got confused when naming these things. I've got another with a 15" speaker. Dominator25 (?). I have the amp out of that one for repair (been meaning to do it for ages!).

I totally reconditioned my Westminster with new components on the PCB. Probably got a bit of info (need to do some digging, but schematics etc) if you are ever stuck.

JezWynd

LastMantra said:

I totally reconditioned my Westminster with new components on the PCB. Probably got a bit of info (need to do some digging, but schematics etc) if you are ever stuck.

Thanks very much, I'll bear it in mind. The amp circuit board itself looks very clean, like new actually, that's what tempted me to seal the deal.The Dominator 25 sounds interesting. A bass combo I presume with the 15". I love 15" speakers; such a full sound even at low volume.