Fender CS prices

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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14034
    edited June 2019 tFB Trader
    A point on the CS pricing - The consensus above is they are over priced - So let's look at a potential £500 reduction in the selling price, so a USA CS Strat can now be offered for say £2600 in the UK (in-fact world wide reduction)

    Will they sell more guitars at £2600 than £3100 - Not guaranteed at all - Let's first of all assume they reduce the price by £500 and sell no more guitars

    £500 reduction at shop floor prices equates to £416 after you remove UK Vat - Now allow say £116 for dealer profit, import duty and shipping fees and that allows for a £300 reduction at Fender's ex factory price - They make just over 10,000 CS Guitars a year - So do you think a senior member of the board will authorise a potential £3,000,000 reduction in profits - Obviously need to adjust this to $'s - But you get the drift

    Also take into account that Fender do not carry any stock in the USA, EU or UK warehouse (or indeed throughout the world) - Every guitar that is built, is already assigned to an appropriate dealer somewhere in the world - As such it carries an invoice and Fender will be paid within 7-10 days in most instances - So it is not a case that they have warehouses full of guitars they can't sell

    Current delivery times are around 6 months from the date of order - A couple of years ago Fender CS mucked up a custom order for a customer of mine - Mainly  a colour issue - It was built for a special birthday - We asked for a replacement and how quick could it be offered - They said they have never built a guitar before in under 4 months - But in the main orders are delivered after 6 months

    Now if they dropped the price, with a view to selling more then either delivery time will go from 6 months to something closer to 8  months - Maybe more - Or they invest in more CNC, appropriate staff and probably more spray booths, to keep the delivery date at 6 months - Therefore more factory costs and more capital expenditure - On the basis that they might sell more, but have to do more work to make the same profit at the old/original pricing

    I've had the chat many times with CS team and they admit that they never thought this vintage relic craze would last so long - They've almost been expecting a down turn many times - And yet 2018 was their best year yet 

    Like it or loathe it, it is a success story for Fender 
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  • darthed1981darthed1981 Frets: 11673
    ^^^

    I think the argument is more the prices should never have gotten as high as they have, not that Fender should make a charitable donation to people well-heeled enough to drop thousands on a guitar.
    We have to be so very careful, what we believe in...
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  • meltedbuzzboxmeltedbuzzbox Frets: 10337
    But the prs you mention are standards right @guitars4you ?
    They are more than a fender pro.

    When you start looking at dgt and other models the cost soon spirals 
    The Bigsby was the first successful design of what is now called a whammy bar or tremolo arm, although vibrato is the technically correct term for the musical effect it produces. In standard usage, tremolo is a rapid fluctuation of the volume of a note, while vibrato is a fluctuation in pitch. The origin of this nonstandard usage of the term by electric guitarists is attributed to Leo Fender, who also used the term “vibrato” to refer to what is really a tremolo effect.
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  • KeefyKeefy Frets: 2272
    Yeah it's a lot of money, but if the guitar says 'Take me, I'm yours' and you can afford it, go for it.

    This happened to me 6 years ago with a CS Strat. I currently own 8 electrics, and normally take 2 to a gig. The CS Strat rarely stays at home.

    Having said that, I came across one with supposedly the same spec in another shop and tried it out of curiosity - it was a completely different playing experience, and not in the least appealing.

    In addition to enjoying the guitar itself, I can feel happy that it has lost relatively little in financial value.

    /smug
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  • RaymondLinRaymondLin Frets: 11812
    As long as they sell, they will keep making them and put their prices up every year. 
    L
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  • BlaendulaisBlaendulais Frets: 3316
    p90fool said:
    RiftAmps said:
    ICBM said:
    RiftAmps said:

    I disagree.

    I like to go to Michelin-starred restaurants and try their à la carte menus. The Fat Duck (Heston) is widely different from Royal Hospital Road (Ramsey), and The Yew Tree (Marco). I don't go to these restaurants because I want the same food everywhere, I go because I want to choose who cooks my food and who puts their signature on it.

    The option of choosing which luthier builds your guitar to your chosen spec is EXACTLY what the Custom Shop is all about, it's the entire reason for their existence, and why SME owners, Baby-Boomers, and Hedge Fund Managers pull out their credit cards.

    Of course, ordering a guitar from the Custom Shop isn't mandatory but for those who want to, the option is there.
    I'd maybe agree with you about the small number of CS guitars that are *true* custom jobs. However the vast majority are simply assemblies of off-the-shelf components in combinations that Fender don't happen to make as standard production models... to use your analogy it's like caring about which chef runs the kitchen at Wetherspoons.
    Once again I disagree, to further my analogy...

    Give both myself and Marco Pierre White the same set of ingredients from Tescos and we both know who's will taste better. The top luthiers at the CS are there because they are at the top of their game, not because they were hired from a Temp agency. Rich folk buy into that, regardless if you would.

    BTW, if Michele Roux Jr ran a Weatherspoons kitchen, it'd be brilliant.
    I could teach Marco Pierre White or some dullard from the 'Spoons to bolt the two halves of a Telecaster together in about four minutes. 

    Unless you want some silly outlandish finish, Fender guitars are neither haute cuisine or "luthiery". 
    So a CNC'd gibson/suhr/godin/anderson/esp/name anything mass produced guitar is any different how?

    I don't understand why people moan about bolt on guitars like fenders but don't say shit about suhr/Anderson and the rest.
    Even a Gibson les Paul is a lot of cnc with a shitty glue join for the neck to the body but it's ok because they are the pinicle of luthier perfection right?

    Echoparks are 10k and they are fucking shocking. Wheres the uproar about them?
    Most of the time the neck ain't done properly anyway!!!
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14034
    tFB Trader
    ^^^

    I think the argument is more the prices should never have gotten as high as they have, not that Fender should make a charitable donation to people well-heeled enough to drop thousands on a guitar.
    Just checked my cost prices + selling prices around 2015, then compared them to today - Then checked the exchange rate, which was around 1.6 in 2015 and now 1.27 today - So assume no factory price increase at all

    2015 and I found CS Strats on my stock books for £2300 as a selling price and a1.6 exchange rate - Now convert £2300 to a 1.27 exchange rate and that same guitar is now £2890 - No differential in profit margin for me or Fender - Just a change in exchange rate

    So add a 5 % factory price increase - I've only used this as a guide line - 5% over 4 years is a low increase - Effectively my 2016 cost + 5% factory increase + an exchange rate at 1.27 now equates to a guitar at £3051 - So we are not far away from this pricing as I have new stock around £3100-3200

    If the exchange rate had have stayed at 1.6 over the last 4 years and the factory applied a 5% increase, which is more than acceptable - The £2300 Strat would only have gone up to a touch over £2400


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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11413
    TINMAN82 said:
    Nikc said:
    Fender custom shop prices are highly amusing - these guitars are mass produced cnc machined designed to be inexpensive and cheap to manufacture - just get a MIM, decent set up and mod it to suit. Keep it for 5 years and bet it costs you about 30p a day without having to sell it ;) 
    That’s great if you like generic modern c neck profiles and thick poly finishes (and are planning on a pickup upgrade).

    My teambuilt CS 61 strat is the best one I’ve played bar none. Helps that it was a “good” deal at £2.5k new. I wouldn’t pay much more than that for any strat.

    The Classic Series 50's has a lovely soft V neck.

    You can get it in nitro as well:

    https://www.gak.co.uk/en/fender-classic-series-50s-stratocaster-lacquer-2TS/919217?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxMiGwfbM4gIVrDLTCh00UwMKEAQYASABEgKS3fD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

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  • simonhpiemansimonhpieman Frets: 681
    ^^^

    I think the argument is more the prices should never have gotten as high as they have, not that Fender should make a charitable donation to people well-heeled enough to drop thousands on a guitar.
    Just checked my cost prices + selling prices around 2015, then compared them to today - Then checked the exchange rate, which was around 1.6 in 2015 and now 1.27 today - So assume no factory price increase at all

    2015 and I found CS Strats on my stock books for £2300 as a selling price and a1.6 exchange rate - Now convert £2300 to a 1.27 exchange rate and that same guitar is now £2890 - No differential in profit margin for me or Fender - Just a change in exchange rate

    So add a 5 % factory price increase - I've only used this as a guide line - 5% over 4 years is a low increase - Effectively my 2016 cost + 5% factory increase + an exchange rate at 1.27 now equates to a guitar at £3051 - So we are not far away from this pricing as I have new stock around £3100-3200

    If the exchange rate had have stayed at 1.6 over the last 4 years and the factory applied a 5% increase, which is more than acceptable - The £2300 Strat would only have gone up to a touch over £2400


    That's some might fine sense talking there, mate. You might want to watch out, you'll kill a thread off with talk like that!!

    Oh what we have to look forward to post-Brexit. Buy now, save later?
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  • Strat54Strat54 Frets: 2331

    ^^^

    I think the argument is more the prices should never have gotten as high as they have, not that Fender should make a charitable donation to people well-heeled enough to drop thousands on a guitar.
    Just checked my cost prices + selling prices around 2015, then compared them to today - Then checked the exchange rate, which was around 1.6 in 2015 and now 1.27 today - So assume no factory price increase at all

    2015 and I found CS Strats on my stock books for £2300 as a selling price and a1.6 exchange rate - Now convert £2300 to a 1.27 exchange rate and that same guitar is now £2890 - No differential in profit margin for me or Fender - Just a change in exchange rate

    So add a 5 % factory price increase - I've only used this as a guide line - 5% over 4 years is a low increase - Effectively my 2016 cost + 5% factory increase + an exchange rate at 1.27 now equates to a guitar at £3051 - So we are not far away from this pricing as I have new stock around £3100-3200

    If the exchange rate had have stayed at 1.6 over the last 4 years and the factory applied a 5% increase, which is more than acceptable - The £2300 Strat would only have gone up to a touch over £2400


    Funny how we didn't see the price cuts when the pound was 1.44 in 2001 then strenghtened to 2.08 in 2007. That's was why we all started buying from the U.S.....half price Fender's....happy days. 
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  • GarthyGarthy Frets: 2268
    The price is what the market will bare, not what it costs Fender to make plus a smidge of profit otherwise a custom shop Strat would be much cheaper than a custom shop Soloist built in the same factory.
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  • darthed1981darthed1981 Frets: 11673
    ^^^

    I think the argument is more the prices should never have gotten as high as they have, not that Fender should make a charitable donation to people well-heeled enough to drop thousands on a guitar.
    Just checked my cost prices + selling prices around 2015, then compared them to today - Then checked the exchange rate, which was around 1.6 in 2015 and now 1.27 today - So assume no factory price increase at all

    2015 and I found CS Strats on my stock books for £2300 as a selling price and a1.6 exchange rate - Now convert £2300 to a 1.27 exchange rate and that same guitar is now £2890 - No differential in profit margin for me or Fender - Just a change in exchange rate

    So add a 5 % factory price increase - I've only used this as a guide line - 5% over 4 years is a low increase - Effectively my 2016 cost + 5% factory increase + an exchange rate at 1.27 now equates to a guitar at £3051 - So we are not far away from this pricing as I have new stock around £3100-3200

    If the exchange rate had have stayed at 1.6 over the last 4 years and the factory applied a 5% increase, which is more than acceptable - The £2300 Strat would only have gone up to a touch over £2400



    Well the strongest argument remains that the market is there, as the argument remains with vintage guitars.  If people wouldn't pay 10k for an old Strat, then they wouldn't sell!

    I think there are more than a few of us who are amazed by just how pricey high-end guitars are getting these days though, regardless of the reason.

    Presumably, as the exchange rate is not looking likely to improve, rather get worse, it is something of a concern?
    We have to be so very careful, what we believe in...
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  • BlueingreenBlueingreen Frets: 2582
    A point on the CS pricing - The consensus above is they are over priced - So let's look at a potential £500 reduction in the selling price, so a USA CS Strat can now be offered for say £2600 in the UK (in-fact world wide reduction)

    Will they sell more guitars at £2600 than £3100 - Not guaranteed at all - Let's first of all assume they reduce the price by £500 and sell no more guitars

    £500 reduction at shop floor prices equates to £416 after you remove UK Vat - Now allow say £116 for dealer profit, import duty and shipping fees and that allows for a £300 reduction at Fender's ex factory price - They make just over 10,000 CS Guitars a year - So do you think a senior member of the board will authorise a potential £3,000,000 reduction in profits - Obviously need to adjust this to $'s - But you get the drift

    Also take into account that Fender do not carry any stock in the USA, EU or UK warehouse (or indeed throughout the world) - Every guitar that is built, is already assigned to an appropriate dealer somewhere in the world - As such it carries an invoice and Fender will be paid within 7-10 days in most instances - So it is not a case that they have warehouses full of guitars they can't sell

    Current delivery times are around 6 months from the date of order - A couple of years ago Fender CS mucked up a custom order for a customer of mine - Mainly  a colour issue - It was built for a special birthday - We asked for a replacement and how quick could it be offered - They said they have never built a guitar before in under 4 months - But in the main orders are delivered after 6 months

    Now if they dropped the price, with a view to selling more then either delivery time will go from 6 months to something closer to 8  months - Maybe more - Or they invest in more CNC, appropriate staff and probably more spray booths, to keep the delivery date at 6 months - Therefore more factory costs and more capital expenditure - On the basis that they might sell more, but have to do more work to make the same profit at the old/original pricing

    I've had the chat many times with CS team and they admit that they never thought this vintage relic craze would last so long - They've almost been expecting a down turn many times - And yet 2018 was their best year yet 

    Like it or loathe it, it is a success story for Fender 
    A couple of points on this:

    1.  It's an unrealistic assumption that they will sell no more guitars at £500 cheaper.  That's not how markets work.

    2.  It's true that Fender will be setting prices to (attempt to) maximise profits.  But they will not be setting those prices with particular regard to the UK market.  They will be interested in the worldwide (and primarily, I imagine, the US) market.

    If Fender sold guitars only in the UK the decision tree would look different.  If something outside their control (like a movement in the exchange rate) gave a sudden and significant price increase, they would re-examine their pricing policy.  And while I don't pretend there's a "one size fits all" response that would suit all manufacturers in that situation, the overwhelming probability is that they'd decide to reduce margins rather than take the hit on demand that would result from passing the full additional cost onto the consumer.  Or to put it another way the dollar price at which their UK profit was maximised would be reduced and they'd adjust prices accordingly.

    But that's not the situation we're in.  I would suspect that in circumstances like these Fender may find minor ways of passing on some discount in costs to UK retailers, so that demand is less badly hurt, but they will be extremely constrained in their ability to do much about it.  They can't be seen to be favouring UK retailers ahead of domestic ones.  Broadly the price will be dictated by the optimal US/worldwide price plus additional costs of selling in the UK (taxes, transport).

    So it's not quite as simple as "they set the optimal price based on the market".  If exchange rate movements or other factors like taxes mean their UK prices are too high to maximise profit and result in their guitars looking like poor value for money, to some extent they will just have to suck that up.  And so will UK consumers who buy their guitars.
    “To a man with a hammer every problem looks like a nail.”
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14034
    tFB Trader
    Strat54 said:

    ^^^

    I think the argument is more the prices should never have gotten as high as they have, not that Fender should make a charitable donation to people well-heeled enough to drop thousands on a guitar.
    Just checked my cost prices + selling prices around 2015, then compared them to today - Then checked the exchange rate, which was around 1.6 in 2015 and now 1.27 today - So assume no factory price increase at all

    2015 and I found CS Strats on my stock books for £2300 as a selling price and a1.6 exchange rate - Now convert £2300 to a 1.27 exchange rate and that same guitar is now £2890 - No differential in profit margin for me or Fender - Just a change in exchange rate

    So add a 5 % factory price increase - I've only used this as a guide line - 5% over 4 years is a low increase - Effectively my 2016 cost + 5% factory increase + an exchange rate at 1.27 now equates to a guitar at £3051 - So we are not far away from this pricing as I have new stock around £3100-3200

    If the exchange rate had have stayed at 1.6 over the last 4 years and the factory applied a 5% increase, which is more than acceptable - The £2300 Strat would only have gone up to a touch over £2400


    Funny how we didn't see the price cuts when the pound was 1.44 in 2001 then strenghtened to 2.08 in 2007. That's was why we all started buying from the U.S.....half price Fender's....happy days. 
    I can't recall when Arbiter ceased to handle Fender and it then became Fender GBI  - Sometime around 2005 ish - The change ensured that Fender now handled and controlled their own distribution and pricing throughout the EU, UK and many other destinations in the world - As such far more of a global pricing - To the point that little, if any price differential today between the UK and USA, especially when you take into account vat + import duty - So I'm excluding any smuggling if you bring it back on  a plane from a USA trip - So no middle man that made an additional profit - Further more it is in the USA dealers terms and conditions that they can't ship mail order out of their jurisdiction - I believe that includes Canada as well as the UK etc

    I recall the days of 2$ to a £ and yes regularly I heard such comments regarding the price differential then from customers - I wasn't selling CS Guitars at the time, so can't recall the full details and don't have any accurate data to go on

    However I was selling plenty of PRS - During the good old days of 2$ to the there was no reduction in the price as such - However we managed to acquire 10 tops + bird inlays at no extra cost as a benefit - Normally around £400 and £200 upgrade - So for many years (around 3 or 4 years) a PRS Custom with 10 top + birds was £1999 - No variation from this for ages

    But today on USA brands and global distribution, there is little, if any, price differential on Fender, PRS, Gibson, Suhr etc - maybe Martin + Boogie as they still have a 3rd party distribution channel
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 14034
    tFB Trader
    A point on the CS pricing - The consensus above is they are over priced - So let's look at a potential £500 reduction in the selling price, so a USA CS Strat can now be offered for say £2600 in the UK (in-fact world wide reduction)

    Will they sell more guitars at £2600 than £3100 - Not guaranteed at all - Let's first of all assume they reduce the price by £500 and sell no more guitars

    £500 reduction at shop floor prices equates to £416 after you remove UK Vat - Now allow say £116 for dealer profit, import duty and shipping fees and that allows for a £300 reduction at Fender's ex factory price - They make just over 10,000 CS Guitars a year - So do you think a senior member of the board will authorise a potential £3,000,000 reduction in profits - Obviously need to adjust this to $'s - But you get the drift

    Also take into account that Fender do not carry any stock in the USA, EU or UK warehouse (or indeed throughout the world) - Every guitar that is built, is already assigned to an appropriate dealer somewhere in the world - As such it carries an invoice and Fender will be paid within 7-10 days in most instances - So it is not a case that they have warehouses full of guitars they can't sell

    Current delivery times are around 6 months from the date of order - A couple of years ago Fender CS mucked up a custom order for a customer of mine - Mainly  a colour issue - It was built for a special birthday - We asked for a replacement and how quick could it be offered - They said they have never built a guitar before in under 4 months - But in the main orders are delivered after 6 months

    Now if they dropped the price, with a view to selling more then either delivery time will go from 6 months to something closer to 8  months - Maybe more - Or they invest in more CNC, appropriate staff and probably more spray booths, to keep the delivery date at 6 months - Therefore more factory costs and more capital expenditure - On the basis that they might sell more, but have to do more work to make the same profit at the old/original pricing

    I've had the chat many times with CS team and they admit that they never thought this vintage relic craze would last so long - They've almost been expecting a down turn many times - And yet 2018 was their best year yet 

    Like it or loathe it, it is a success story for Fender 
    A couple of points on this:

    1.  It's an unrealistic assumption that they will sell no more guitars at £500 cheaper.  That's not how markets work.

    2.  It's true that Fender will be setting prices to (attempt to) maximise profits.  But they will not be setting those prices with particular regard to the UK market.  They will be interested in the worldwide (and primarily, I imagine, the US) market.

    If Fender sold guitars only in the UK the decision tree would look different.  If something outside their control (like a movement in the exchange rate) gave a sudden and significant price increase, they would re-examine their pricing policy.  And while I don't pretend there's a "one size fits all" response that would suit all manufacturers in that situation, the overwhelming probability is that they'd decide to reduce margins rather than take the hit on demand that would result from passing the full additional cost onto the consumer.  Or to put it another way the dollar price at which their UK profit was maximised would be reduced and they'd adjust prices accordingly.

    But that's not the situation we're in.  I would suspect that in circumstances like these Fender may find minor ways of passing on some discount in costs to UK retailers, so that demand is less badly hurt, but they will be extremely constrained in their ability to do much about it.  They can't be seen to be favouring UK retailers ahead of domestic ones.  Broadly the price will be dictated by the optimal US/worldwide price plus additional costs of selling in the UK (taxes, transport).

    So it's not quite as simple as "they set the optimal price based on the market".  If exchange rate movements or other factors like taxes mean their UK prices are too high to maximise profit and result in their guitars looking like poor value for money, to some extent they will just have to suck that up.  And so will UK consumers who buy their guitars.
    I was quoting accurate data from sales and stock I've handled - Agree it is a global market with the USA the largest part of the market and yes pricing is controlled and handled via their market accordingly - Give or take any EU regulations our T&C's are the same as the USA - Prices in the USA are similar to the UK, especially when you take into account import duty + vat - Ditto for Suhr, Gibson, Fender, PRS where there is no 3rd party middle man involved - All such products are now factory to retailer

    Agree they can't and don't offer a more 'favourable' UK pricing, as any such advantage would impact on their EU market as well - There is very little difference on CS prices between say UK dealers and Thomann

    Remember guitar sales world wide is still a cottage industry, hence my comment that a lower price would not guarantee any additional sales - I stand by the comment that to sell more they would need to make more - Yet they are already at full capacity - Hence a 6 month lead time on orders - More orders would therefore either mean longer delivery times, or they would need to expand production, with more capital expenditure on expensive CNC machines + additional spray facilities
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11413

    Presumably, as the exchange rate is not looking likely to improve, rather get worse, it is something of a concern?

    Not necessarily the case.

    If nothing else, the US government debt will eventually drag the dollar down. 

    Their current debt is $22 trillion, and they are adding $1.1 trillion to it each year with their current level of government deficit.  That debt is $67,000k dollars for every citizen - and they are adding another $3,000 per citizen to that every year. 

    It's actually worse than that, as most of their citizens don't pay tax.  The current debt is $181,000 per tax payer, and around $9,000 per tax payer is added to the debt every year.  That isn't sustainable.  Sooner or later it will implode. 

    At that point it might all become irrelevant as it might drag the world economy down with it.

    Even avoiding doom and gloom scenarios, the pound might gain some ground once the uncertainty about Brexit is over.

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  • BlueingreenBlueingreen Frets: 2582
    edited June 2019
    "Remember guitar sales world wide is still a cottage industry, hence my comment that a lower price would not guarantee any additional sales - I stand by the comment that to sell more they would need to make more - Yet they are already at full capacity - Hence a 6 month lead time on orders - More orders would therefore either mean longer delivery times, or they would need to expand production, with more capital expenditure on expensive CNC machines + additional spray facilities"

    1. If sales prices world-wide had spiked as much as in the UK it's very possible that demand would have dropped below capacity.  As it is they can simply divert guitars they can't sell in the UK elsewhere.

    2. I'm not convinced that the six month lead is solid evidence of an inability to produce more.  I suspect for example that if the demand for CS models spiked they'd manage to use plant being used to make other models for CS.  And new capital investment isn't out of the question either.

    There will be people out there who aspired to own a CS model and who, if UK prices had kept pace with inflation would have bought one by now; but who can't justify a price of £3,100 plus.  I just don't think it's plausible that Fender wouldn't have sold more CS models in the UK had prices not risen so fast.
    “To a man with a hammer every problem looks like a nail.”
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  • teradaterada Frets: 5113
    The prices of custom shop instruments does seem off compared to potential UK demand. The Peach R8 thread is a perfect example of how quickly people will buy if the price is right.
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  • darthed1981darthed1981 Frets: 11673
    crunchman said:

    Presumably, as the exchange rate is not looking likely to improve, rather get worse, it is something of a concern?

    Not necessarily the case.

    If nothing else, the US government debt will eventually drag the dollar down. 

    Their current debt is $22 trillion, and they are adding $1.1 trillion to it each year with their current level of government deficit.  That debt is $67,000k dollars for every citizen - and they are adding another $3,000 per citizen to that every year. 

    It's actually worse than that, as most of their citizens don't pay tax.  The current debt is $181,000 per tax payer, and around $9,000 per tax payer is added to the debt every year.  That isn't sustainable.  Sooner or later it will implode. 

    At that point it might all become irrelevant as it might drag the world economy down with it.

    Even avoiding doom and gloom scenarios, the pound might gain some ground once the uncertainty about Brexit is over.

    And if my auntie had a penis she'd be my uncle ;)

    My point was, that for @guitars4you if the cost of his product to him continues to increase for whatever reason, in the end, suppliers will price him out of his own market, which would not be desirable for him or his customers.

    Unless custom shop guitars are just veblen goods of course <pulls pin, throws grenade> ;)
    We have to be so very careful, what we believe in...
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  • prlgmnrprlgmnr Frets: 3964

    Unless custom shop guitars are just veblen goods
    I'm actually really surprised we made it to page 3 before this came up.
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