Gibson warning video over trademark infringements

Three-ColourSunburst

Danielsguitars said:

I had to laugh, the old Gibson is long gone imo

Exactly. Just like everyone else all the current company does is build copies of the classic designs once made by the now long defunct original Gibson company, having them made in different location by different people, and being directed by a different ethos. The only significant difference between the current-day Gibson and all the other makers of 'Les Paul' style guitars is that the venture capitalists who run Gibson own the brand name and the rights to a few design details - such as the exact headstock shape - that have no functional significance.

peteri

Even the Reddit link doesn't work now.

Apart from being someone who has done Youtube videos a lot (popular but of questionable quality IMHO) it was hard to see what Mr Agnesi was bringing to the table, suspect the real reason was to build better relationships with the dealers, which you'd think he would be able to do.

The move to threaten suing is clearly a really poor idea, which smacks of desperation - or that classic senior manager thing, not learning from history. Someone from inside the industry would surely know that this is a dead horse, someone from outside the industry who is not listening to others - not so much.

That's outside of Mark's control.

What is inside his control is he can push back and say this isn't the message we want to put out there, their range has been well received compared to previous years, the videos have been pretty reasonable I'd say - he has the responsibility to push back on the content, something which he either didn't do, or didn't do successfully (which at the end of the day is the same thing)

But then as he was heard to say on the Guitar of the Day 'I'm just a guy who sells guitar in the valley', maybe this is too much outside his comfort zone.

It's also not the first bad idea he's been a (tiny) part of, not long before he left Norms they launched a Patreon page which was criticised so much it was almost immediately pulled.

Similarly he was demo'ing guitars and pushing the website on Youtube, a website that was consistently never updated and not showing stock etc. and try emailing the store, email responses are slow to non-existent. Again all inside his control.

All smoke and mirrors from my point of view, there are limits to being a 'personality' 

And back to the original topic, I think this is actually really sad - the range for this year is brilliant, I've not played one - but it's pretty much the models they should have been making, it looked like a very positive move for a company that I think most guitarists would rather see survive than go under. Even if the QC issues only got a bit better, they're going in the right direction.

This is a step back, and short of suing Terry Morgan for the 5-10 guitars he makes a year, it's going to have no impact on anything, PRS would laugh at them, and because of that so will all the other manufacturers who do SC guitars now. 

TTBZ

What's the easiest way to buy the quality Japanese copies in the UK these days?

Tenebrous

peteri said:

It's also not the first bad idea he's been a (tiny) part of, not long before he left Norms they launched a Patreon page which was criticised so much it was almost immediately pulled.

Wow, I didn't know that. Given the state of Gibson right now, a Patreon for them would probably be suitable than one for Norms.

guitars4you

peteri said:

Even the Reddit link doesn't work now.

Apart from being someone who has done Youtube videos a lot (popular but of questionable quality IMHO) it was hard to see what Mr Agnesi was bringing to the table, suspect the real reason was to build better relationships with the dealers, which you'd think he would be able to do.

The move to threaten suing is clearly a really poor idea, which smacks of desperation - or that classic senior manager thing, not learning from history. Someone from inside the industry would surely know that this is a dead horse, someone from outside the industry who is not listening to others - not so much.

That's outside of Mark's control.

What is inside his control is he can push back and say this isn't the message we want to put out there, their range has been well received compared to previous years, the videos have been pretty reasonable I'd say - he has the responsibility to push back on the content, something which he either didn't do, or didn't do successfully (which at the end of the day is the same thing)

But then as he was heard to say on the Guitar of the Day 'I'm just a guy who sells guitar in the valley', maybe this is too much outside his comfort zone.

It's also not the first bad idea he's been a (tiny) part of, not long before he left Norms they launched a Patreon page which was criticised so much it was almost immediately pulled.

Similarly he was demo'ing guitars and pushing the website on Youtube, a website that was consistently never updated and not showing stock etc. and try emailing the store, email responses are slow to non-existent. Again all inside his control.

All smoke and mirrors from my point of view, there are limits to being a 'personality' 

And back to the original topic, I think this is actually really sad - the range for this year is brilliant, I've not played one - but it's pretty much the models they should have been making, it looked like a very positive move for a company that I think most guitarists would rather see survive than go under. Even if the QC issues only got a bit better, they're going in the right direction.

This is a step back, and short of suing Terry Morgan for the 5-10 guitars he makes a year, it's going to have no impact on anything, PRS would laugh at them, and because of that so will all the other manufacturers who do SC guitars now. 

A good posting

There is another potential area that Gibson might decide to explore to protect what they believe to be their IPL - And that is to build into their dealership agreements that dealers can't stock/sell the other new guitar brands that Gibson see as a threat

Like fixed price agreements this might not be legal/viable in the EU, but in the USA it will be and I dare say in other countries as well

mrleon83

rossyamaha said:

https://www.reddit.com/link/c1p9kc/video/zhucj5uxvx431/player

Holy crap that's weird, great to be able to see it ... three camera's only use the facing one at the start, this video is so wrong on so many levels.... 


Had to LOL at the 'guitars coming from overseas [OFTEN] at lower quality' , as a Gibson owner, this is still funny, almost suggesting that hey, some will be better

Philtre

Video here now https://www.reddit.com/r/guitars/comments/c1p9kc/gibsons_play_authentic_video_they_pulled_off_of/

designerseye88

Thanks for posting the Reddit link, It wasn't as bad as i was expecting but it made Agnesi look like a complete corporate puppet. Personally I think this video should have come from JC directly and instead of being so direct maybe they should have just pointed out what features make a Gibson instead of just going on the offensive. 

 Over the past few days and weeks I've been looking for a gigging guitar, Something that isn't going to break the bank but that is still decent quality. I was starting to fall for the hype of the new Gibson collection and thought about a new standard but once i explored the Japanese market I realised there are some incredibly good value guitars here. You can find a guitar built to almost R9 specs for half what a current standard is costing! I know the logo on the headstock is important for some and used to be important for me but this video has made me even more determined to go with something Japanese or handmade in the UK.

 

RandallFlagg

I don't necessarily disagree with the sentiment behind this video but having Mark Agnesi deliver it over Youtube is not the right way to execute this strategy. The video will be watched by Gibson guitar fans and prospective buyers, the message should simply be the only a Gibson is good enough don't settle for a copy.

The real execution of the plan should be cease and desist letters from the lawyers if they are serious.

OilCityPickups

guitars4you said:

peteri said:

Even the Reddit link doesn't work now.

Apart from being someone who has done Youtube videos a lot (popular but of questionable quality IMHO) it was hard to see what Mr Agnesi was bringing to the table, suspect the real reason was to build better relationships with the dealers, which you'd think he would be able to do.

The move to threaten suing is clearly a really poor idea, which smacks of desperation - or that classic senior manager thing, not learning from history. Someone from inside the industry would surely know that this is a dead horse, someone from outside the industry who is not listening to others - not so much.

That's outside of Mark's control.

What is inside his control is he can push back and say this isn't the message we want to put out there, their range has been well received compared to previous years, the videos have been pretty reasonable I'd say - he has the responsibility to push back on the content, something which he either didn't do, or didn't do successfully (which at the end of the day is the same thing)

But then as he was heard to say on the Guitar of the Day 'I'm just a guy who sells guitar in the valley', maybe this is too much outside his comfort zone.

It's also not the first bad idea he's been a (tiny) part of, not long before he left Norms they launched a Patreon page which was criticised so much it was almost immediately pulled.

Similarly he was demo'ing guitars and pushing the website on Youtube, a website that was consistently never updated and not showing stock etc. and try emailing the store, email responses are slow to non-existent. Again all inside his control.

All smoke and mirrors from my point of view, there are limits to being a 'personality' 

And back to the original topic, I think this is actually really sad - the range for this year is brilliant, I've not played one - but it's pretty much the models they should have been making, it looked like a very positive move for a company that I think most guitarists would rather see survive than go under. Even if the QC issues only got a bit better, they're going in the right direction.

This is a step back, and short of suing Terry Morgan for the 5-10 guitars he makes a year, it's going to have no impact on anything, PRS would laugh at them, and because of that so will all the other manufacturers who do SC guitars now. 

A good posting

There is another potential area that Gibson might decide to explore to protect what they believe to be their IPL - And that is to build into their dealership agreements that dealers can't stock/sell the other new guitar brands that Gibson see as a threat

Like fixed price agreements this might not be legal/viable in the EU, but in the USA it will be and I dare say in other countries as well

However ... we will probably soon not be part of the EU ...

Whitecat

Here's another backup of the video in case you missed it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEAyml3Fxgo

brooom

OilCityPickups said:

However ... we will probably soon not be part of the EU ...

Maybe we'll get Gibson discounts, once the States own the NHS deals.

Kittyfrisk

Philtre said:

Video here now https://www.reddit.com/r/guitars/comments/c1p9kc/gibsons_play_authentic_video_they_pulled_off_of/

Nice detective work 

jonnyburgo

Great comment -

“Mark, if they are hurting or torturing you, blink twice in your next video”. 

Hahaha , it certainly looks that way.

​

ICBM

Watched it now. I understand what they're trying to say and why, but the bombastic delivery is laughable and the not-looking-to-camera is massively irritating, especially in close-up.

Musicman20

I don't know why anyone is surprised that Mr Agnesi has done this; he's been told to....he is basically a media puppet for Gibson.

I envy his position in life. He is no doubt on a significant salary for pushing the brand, and all it takes is some historical knowledge of guitars, some skill on guitar and some confidence. Gibson will have looked after him. His daily life revolves around something he loves!

Didn't he start a chat show as well whilst at Norms? I tried to watch one but lost interest quickly.

Was the Patreon linked to Norms, Mark or Gibson?

It was very wise to pull the video although daft that they did it in the first place! 

peteri

Watched the video now - interesting one of the comments echoes what I've heard from more than one person first hand 

'I cannot stand Agnesi.

From personal experience, he’s an arrogant dick (unless you’re Bonamassa, etc.).'

I've heard more bad than good experiences from shopping at Norms when you're a UK visitor.

Regarding the Patreon, it was Norms (when Mark was the GM), by paying you could see more videos, tours of 'Norms secret vault' etc.

Was launched with a very awkward introduction video (very, very awkward) and lasted maybe a week before being pulled

brooom

Without wanting to comment on Mark's personality, because to be fair, I don't know the guy. So all I can take from his internet persona are assumptions.

What irritates me, other then the obviously bad content of the video, is that they pulled it without any public justification.

Pull it... but admit how badly you fucked up and explain why that was the case.

lewisanderson

I think next time he should wear mirrored Aviators and chew a matchstick in the corner of his mouth. Would give it slightly more gravitas.
Maybe even throw in a few "motherfuckers" for good measure.

Musicman20

peteri said:

Regarding the Patreon, it was Norms (when Mark was the GM), by paying you could see more videos, tours of 'Norms secret vault' etc.

Was launched with a very awkward introduction video (very, very awkward) and lasted maybe a week before being pulled

Very interesting. They obviously realised it looked awful to their customers to have to pay to see things like that. Norm's clearly does extremely well without things like that; makes it look like another revenue stream and the customers paying to be advertised to.

Just watched the video again. I'm not at all surprised it was pulled. It really is awful. Mark used to have a few words to say about Gibson, and not all positive, but now, he can only say positive things.