home theatre system

wibble

It depends how much value you put into the 4K HDR experience. A lot of tv's claim HDR but not all HDR is the same, proper HDR requires a 10-bit panel, a lot of budget tv's use 8-bit plus dithering to translate the HDR information. Then there's the screen technology, peak brightness, black levels and contrast levels. You'll be going down a rabbit hole and before you know it you'll be blowing half your budget on the tv alone. If you go all in then you'll be looking at OLED screens from LG (and other manufacturers like Sony who use the LG panels but their own processors). OLED screen sizes start at 55" - it may be too big for your lounge setup? Prices have come down lately though. https://www.rtings.com/ is a good site to narrow down tv choices although some of the sets it reviews aren't available in the UK

wave100

Thanks for the replies, folks - I am unlikely to be spending £70 on an HDMI cable, being a Scotsman, and part of my plan was to visit Richer Sounds. Also I was thinking of 55 or 65" telly, interesting info @Wibble, I will definitely check out that site.

Rocker

Not convinced that Richer Sounds is the best place to buy your system @wave100 but, whatever you do, think 'system' rather than individual components.  Your new system should do everything you require it to do, it should be controllable using the remote or an app on your phone/pad.  It should be easy to use and not require fifty actions to view a movie.  And it is always best to get it professionally installed and setup.  By someone who knows exactly what he is doing.  Remember your new system will work for many years and while parts of it may need upgrading in the years to come, the core of the system will remain unchanged.  This is important as your room will be furnished and decorated to your taste and speakers/wires concealed - changes in this area usually result in significant unplanned costs.

Good luck with your search and wishing you many years of enjoyment from your new system.

ToneControl

I think the cheapest convenient source of 4k TV is a 4K Amazon fire stick
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B079QB9BD7/ref=ods_cc_smp_mn
I have the older bulkier version
you can get an ethernet adaptor too

Amazon has some 4k, 
using this, you get Netflix, which has some 4k too, costs £2 pcm extra I think 

fretmeister

Rocker said:

darthed1981 said:

skunkwerx said:

Hdmi cables (again could spend £70 a pop or go for budget ones). 

Please, please don't anyone spend £70 on a digital cable.

Just wondering what cables you tested so that you can give such advice?

You've never done a Double Blind Test either.
As many past threads show.

fretmeister

If this is the OPs first 5.1 system...

When you fire up your console (I'd recommend the PS4 Pro) and play something horror based for the first time and get the surround sound running properly - do not do it drunk!

You'll crap yourself!  

darthed1981

Rocker said:

This is important as your room will be furnished and decorated to your taste and speakers/wires concealed - changes in this area usually result in significant unplanned costs.

Rocker raises a good point here, if your dearest other half makes you wall off or hide speaker cables in an expensive way (I've known people drop them down the cavity and put plugs on the wall behind the speakers), use reasonable speaker cable not bell-wire, or you will feel obliged to change it later at significant cost and irritation.

Rocker

fretmeister said:

Rocker said:

darthed1981 said:

skunkwerx said:

Hdmi cables (again could spend £70 a pop or go for budget ones). 

Please, please don't anyone spend £70 on a digital cable.

Just wondering what cables you tested so that you can give such advice?

You've never done a Double Blind Test either.
As many past threads show.

Man, you simply cannot do a blind or double blind test on HDMI cables!  [laughs at innocence....]

fretmeister

Yes you can. As usual you have no understanding of what a double blind test is, and more importantly actively refuse to learn.

Rocker

fretmeister said:

Yes you can. As usual you have no understanding of what a double blind test is, and more importantly actively refuse to learn.

Does this really matter to you my friend?  In my own case the only person I have to prove something to is myself.  Plug in and listen.  Plug in alternative and listen.  Plug in first cable and listen.  The only possible results are: both the same, one or other better.

fretmeister

Rocker said:

fretmeister said:

Yes you can. As usual you have no understanding of what a double blind test is, and more importantly actively refuse to learn.

Does this really matter to you my friend?  In my own case the only person I have to prove something to is myself.  Plug in and listen.  Plug in alternative and listen.  Plug in first cable and listen.  The only possible results are: both the same, one or other better.

That's not blind and certainly not double blind.

The fact that you know which cable is which before you use them causes entirely normal and unavoidable bias.

In a proper double blind experiment the cables would be numbered by Person A. They would know which is which.

They would pass the cables to Person B. Who only knows the numbers and not the actual item. Person A will never tell Person B which is which or the prices / makes etc.

Person B will be the one plugging them into the system. They will not have access to the Viewer / Listener.
The viewer will not be able to see which one is being plugged in just in case there are any body language triggers.

B will sometimes plug the same one in twice in a row. Sometimes will do then in number order, then sometimes completely randomly.

The viewer won't be able to see or hear anything person B does - The viewer will not be given the same item Numbers as Person B. They won't even relate to a particular cable, it will be a test number.

So comparing Cable 1 with 2 would be called TEST A. Did the viewer like the X or Y better?

Test 2 would be: Did the viewer like X or Y better - NOT knowing that they were the same cable No1.

Test 3 would be the reverse of Test 2 - using Cable 2 as both options.

Test 4 would be the same as Test 1 but swapping the order.

etc etc. The tests would be repeated over and over again to remove flukes.

The viewer would complete his bit of paper saying which one he liked best, still not knowing whether he has genuinely ranked one better than the other or whether he thinks he identifies differences when in fact the same cable has been used for X and Y in that particular test segment.

Only when the test is completed do the separate elements come together so the true identity of each cable is revealed.

Only then will the testing process show an unbiased result (with a sample size of 1 viewer) showing that 1 cable is preferred over another.

And then the whole lot needs to be done again with at least 1500 viewers to make the result statistically relevant.


That is proper testing. 

Lodious

fretmeister said:

Rocker said:

fretmeister said:

Yes you can. As usual you have no understanding of what a double blind test is, and more importantly actively refuse to learn.

Does this really matter to you my friend?  In my own case the only person I have to prove something to is myself.  Plug in and listen.  Plug in alternative and listen.  Plug in first cable and listen.  The only possible results are: both the same, one or other better.

That's not blind and certainly not double blind.

The fact that you know which cable is which before you use them causes entirely normal and unavoidable bias.

In a proper double blind experiment the cables would be numbered by Person A. They would know which is which.

They would pass the cables to Person B. Who only knows the numbers and not the actual item. Person A will never tell Person B which is which or the prices / makes etc.

Person B will be the one plugging them into the system. They will not have access to the Viewer / Listener.
The viewer will not be able to see which one is being plugged in just in case there are any body language triggers.

B will sometimes plug the same one in twice in a row. Sometimes will do then in number order, then sometimes completely randomly.

The viewer won't be able to see or hear anything person B does - The viewer will not be given the same item Numbers as Person B. They won't even relate to a particular cable, it will be a test number.

So comparing Cable 1 with 2 would be called TEST A. Did the viewer like the X or Y better?

Test 2 would be: Did the viewer like X or Y better - NOT knowing that they were the same cable No1.

Test 3 would be the reverse of Test 2 - using Cable 2 as both options.

Test 4 would be the same as Test 1 but swapping the order.

etc etc. The tests would be repeated over and over again to remove flukes.

The viewer would complete his bit of paper saying which one he liked best, still not knowing whether he has genuinely ranked one better than the other or whether he thinks he identifies differences when in fact the same cable has been used for X and Y in that particular test segment.

Only when the test is completed do the separate elements come together so the true identity of each cable is revealed.

Only then will the testing process show an unbiased result (with a sample size of 1 viewer) showing that 1 cable is preferred over another.

And then the whole lot needs to be done again with at least 1500 viewers to make the result statistically relevant.


That is proper testing. 

That's a lot of work to conclude that there is absolutely no point in spending 70quid on a HDMI cable!

fretmeister

Lodious said:

fretmeister said:

Rocker said:

fretmeister said:

Yes you can. As usual you have no understanding of what a double blind test is, and more importantly actively refuse to learn.

Does this really matter to you my friend?  In my own case the only person I have to prove something to is myself.  Plug in and listen.  Plug in alternative and listen.  Plug in first cable and listen.  The only possible results are: both the same, one or other better.

That's not blind and certainly not double blind.

The fact that you know which cable is which before you use them causes entirely normal and unavoidable bias.

In a proper double blind experiment the cables would be numbered by Person A. They would know which is which.

SNIP....

That's a lot of work to conclude that there is absolutely no point in spending 70quid on a HDMI cable!

And that is exactly why audio magazines don't do proper testing.
They don't want genuine results and neither do the makers of £5000 IEC power cables.
Advertising revenue would plummet and ultimately the makers would go out of business.

It's even funnier when people claim they can hear differences that won't even show up on a 'scope.

Lodious

Agreed, the hifi press have a lot to answer for :-(

boogieman

It always amuses me that Hifi mags are full of pictures and verbal descriptions of things that can only be determined with your ears. 

darthed1981

boogieman said:

It always amuses me that Hifi mags are full of pictures and verbal descriptions of things that can only be determined with your ears. 

To be fair, so are guitar magazines.

boogieman

darthed1981 said:

boogieman said:

It always amuses me that Hifi mags are full of pictures and verbal descriptions of things that can only be determined with your ears. 

To be fair, so are guitar magazines.

True. At least guitars look pretty, rather than just boxes.  

fretmeister

darthed1981 said:

boogieman said:

It always amuses me that Hifi mags are full of pictures and verbal descriptions of things that can only be determined with your ears. 

To be fair, so are guitar magazines.

I don't buy them either!

Snap

Sony STRDN 1080 amp. Cambridge Audio minx speakers - the min 12s (five of em) and the 201 sub. That is a killer sound setup, I have it twice over in our house. Loud, tons of bass but very well balanced. Great amp, the best for under £450.

Get some good cabling and you will have enough for a good TV, at least a grandsworth. Philips do some corkers for under a grand, seriously good value.

Axe_meister

The thing is with Hi-Fi amps is that the amplifier technology has changed very little over the last 20 years, the circuits are actually very simple as they should be to keep the signal path as clean as possible.
A lot of the very high end amps really are snake oil, they just shove in bigger transformers and big capacitors (not in value but in physical size) with the same circuit as a smaller cheaper hi-fi amp.
And of course a nice snazzy metal box.